[Chapter-delegates] Call with Chapters in advance of the ITU Plenipotentiary 2018 (18 Oct, 10:00 and 20:00 UTC)

Tue Oct 16 10:51:49 PDT 2018

I think almost everyone will agree these spaces are not ideal but the only
way I know of moving forward in this environments it's to keep being part
of the meetings and taking advantage of the spaces (even if tiny) we have
instead of just disabling ourselves... it's key to do as much as we can
with what we have and keep moving forward.

"To lose the patience is to lose the battle" MG.

Cheers

El mar., 16 oct. 2018 a las 19:08, sivasubramanian muthusamy (<
6.internet at gmail.com>) escribió:

>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 10:02 PM Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard,
>>
>> one of the ways in which this works to the detriment of Internet
>> principles is to force the counterpart into a drill-down to ever more
>> minute detail until the investment of effort in counterarguments has too
>> little return to be worth the effort. Thanks but no thanks.
>>
>> The first type of violation experienced in large ITU conferences is the
>> schedule. There is an evident sigh when the first meeting after dinner is
>> called. It goes from then on.
>>
>> The other type of egregious violation consists of suddenly superseding
>> the supposedly tidy, long rules-compliant process of building up text for
>> resolutions through national and regional preparatory processes to drafting
>> and negotiating text on the fly.
>>
>
> ...which, by design, leads to a premeditated pro-telecom outcome????
>
>
>> The third thing ISOC representatives attending the Plenipot should be
>> wary of is of consultants who appear to be friendly to the Internet but are
>> actually doing hack jobs for operators
>>
>
> +1
>
> and governments; and sometimes both, as some operators are owned by
>> governments or closely allied. This gets to the point of becoming a fifth
>> column against the long-term evolution of a free, open Internet for all.
>> Fortunately just watching who they sit with over sessions - in the middle
>> of enfranchised participants, while ISOC is given one chair in the last
>> table at the end of the room - is enough to unmask them.
>>
>
> The Internet requires a far more active and balancing presence in these
> forums.
>
>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 6:32 AM Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Please see below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and best,
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chapter-delegates [mailto:
>>> chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] *On Behalf Of *Alejandro
>>> Pisanty
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 15, 2018 22:20
>>> *To:* Elizabeth Oluoch
>>> *Cc:* ISOC Chapter Delegates
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Call with Chapters in advance of the
>>> ITU Plenipotentiary 2018 (18 Oct, 10:00 and 20:00 UTC)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Elizabeth,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> fully agree and I again commend this approach as taken. Now is the time
>>> for us in chapters to forcefully make our basic points of view known to the
>>> national delegations that will be attending, and to make sure they continue
>>> to listen to us through the Plenipot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >RH: Agreed. However, as I’ve pointed out before, I think that we should
>>> devote at least as much energy to influencing trade negotiations, in
>>> particular because trade negotiations result in binding treaty provisions,
>>> whereas the ITU PP can at most adopt non-binding resolutions.  Recall that
>>> the US-Mexico-Canada (USMCA) mandates that the ccTLD will publish WHOIS
>>> data. I would not be surprised if such proposals appeared in future trade
>>> negotiations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is a long, gruelling few weeks, full of surprises and jarring
>>> violations of ground rules disguised in different ways.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >RH: Could you please provide examples of violations of procedural
>>> rules?  ITU’s procedural rules are very complicated and many people don’t
>>> actually understand them. So it would be good to have actual examples of
>>> violations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Secrecy in negotiations should not be allowed to hide what each
>>> delegation is doing, what principles they are actually championing and
>>> which they are hiding or openly violating.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >RH: All of the proposals to the ITU-PP are publicly accessible on the
>>> ITU web site. And all the formal negotiating sessions are open to all
>>> people registered to attend PP.  Non-state actors (including ISOC) can ask
>>> to speak (but cannot take part in formal decision-making).  There are
>>> informal negotiating sessions between states that have differing views, and
>>> those are limited to the representatives of those states, but in the end
>>> the concerned states have to present their proposals in sessions that are
>>> open to all registered participants.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >RH: Contrast that to WTO (and other trade negotiations), where not all
>>> proposals are made public, and the negotiations are limited to state
>>> representatives who make it a point not to consult (except perhaps big
>>> business).  Had anybody seen the text of the USMCA before it was formally
>>> agreed?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SNIP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> there is a lot of non-transparent politics for these elections and that
>>> the negotiations may involve trading off or becoming silent on principles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >RH: The negotiations for elections are indeed kept confidential
>>> (secret, if you wish). But the voting is secret: nobody knows who voted for
>>> which candidate. So a state can promise a vote, and fail to deliver it. So
>>> I seriously doubt that there is any real horse-trading going on. What does
>>> go on is that many states tell several candidates that they will vote for
>>> them. In my experience,  in the past, several candidates had been promised
>>> enough votes to have a majority on the first round, which is obviously
>>> impossible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SNIP
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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-- 

Maureen Patricia Hernández González
Systems Engineer. Universidad de Los Andes.
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