[Chapter-delegates] Internet Society Accountability: a response to a message on the thread of making ISOC multi-stakeholder, with the subject line renamed.
Susannah Gray
susannah.gray at gmail.com
Tue Apr 3 17:42:45 PDT 2018
On 03/04/2018 00:45, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
> Something happens every week that says "ISOC NY". Either it is an ISOC
> NY event or Joly's webcast of a useful event happening in NY or
> elsewhere. Someone mentioned about it by his own choice of words -
> "drives"- instead
> of saying iISOC NY 'inspires', or 'draws attention to topics'.
>
> I have known ISOC NY for over 8 years, have met Joly once in person.
> There has never been even a hint of a suggestion from him or anyone
> from ISOC NY on what other Chapters should do; Joly or anyone I knew
> from NY never assumed a posture of any form of leadership over any
> other Chapter. Despite its visibility ISOC NY has been a quiet Chapter.
>
> Why is there a discussion on ISOC NY now? Because someone used the
> word "drives" in referring to something about NY which is actually
> positive ?
>
- Using the word 'drives' implies all sorts of things. I felt it
important that what was meant by the use of this word be clarified, at
the very least to ensure that Andrea's words were not misinterpreted.
The NY chapter does fantastic work and there was never any debate around
that from me.
Regards,
Susannah
--
Susannah Gray
President
San Francisco Bay Area Internet Society Chapter
www.sfbayisoc.org
> Sivasubramanian M
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018, 7:06 AM JOHN MORE <morej1 at mac.com
> <mailto:morej1 at mac.com>> wrote:
>
> Collaboration is a core principal. Each Chapter has its own
> strengths (and weaknesses). We are stronger together.
>
> John More
>
> On Apr 2, 2018, at 6:20 PM, Susannah Gray <susannah.gray at gmail.com
> <mailto:susannah.gray at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Shuli,
>>
>>
>> On 31/03/2018 11:29, Shuli Hallak wrote:
>>> Hm, that’s an interesting assessment of our chapter’s activity
>>> over the past year, which I do not agree with, but this response
>>> is not about what NY does.
>>>
>>> NY certainly does not drive the other chapters. i know we’ve
>>> looked to other chapters for guidance. It’s been absolutely
>>> wonderful to meet with and collaborate with other chapter
>>> leaders, Susannah included, in order to strengthen the roles of
>>> the chapters and ISOC’s mission as a whole. In fact, I truly
>>> believe that we can and should be working more closely together
>>> with our colleagues here and around the world to share best
>>> practices and increase our effectiveness and reach.
>> - Exactly: I do not believe that any one chapter is - or should
>> be - leading or driving the others nor should chapters be in
>> competition with each other.
>>> Our mission is important, and I look forward to working with all
>>> chapter leaders to do our work the best we can.
>>>
>>> (please excuse any typos / errors, I’m typing one handed due to
>>> a broken arm).
>> - Yikes: get better soon!
>>
>> Susannah
>>
>> —
>> Susannah Gray
>> President
>> San Francisco Bay Area Internet Society Chapter
>> www.sfbayisoc.org <http://www.sfbayisoc.org>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Shuli
>>>
>>>
>>> *— *
>>> Shuli Hallak
>>> *Executive Director*
>>> Internet Society - New York Chapter
>>> http://isoc-ny.org
>>>
>>> +1.917.891.1520 | shuli at isoc-ny.org <mailto:shuli at isoc-ny.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2018, at 1:15 PM, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com
>>>> <mailto:daveb at dslprime.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Folks
>>>>
>>>> Susannah was right to correct this. Andrea made a good faith
>>>> mistake saying ISOC-NY "drives the other chapters." She's new
>>>> to the chapter this year, and presumably assumed the _hopes
>>>> talked abou_t in the New York chapter in 2018 reflected
>>>> actual accomplishments. I've been a board member for several
>>>> years; it just isn't so.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, until a few months ago, the New York chapter hadn't
>>>> even had a meeting in over a year. Under our previous chapter
>>>> president, the chapter was all but defunct. We hadn't had a
>>>> major event in years and were down to fewer than 20 active
>>>> members. I don't remember more than one board meeting per year.
>>>> In 2017, we had only one or two board meetings (the minutes are
>>>> unclear) and no membership meetings.
>>>>
>>>> About the only visible things that were being done were Joly
>>>> doing videos and me writing to this list and speaking up at
>>>> ISOC events. Avri was active in the Chapters committee but
>>>> didn't report to the local chapter and a few people went to
>>>> events with ISOC funding.
>>>>
>>>> I laughed when I heard the staff had given the NY Chapter an
>>>> excellent rating even though we weren't having meetings,
>>>> elections, or doing very much. Being friendly with a few staff
>>>> people paid off.
>>>>
>>>> Joly couldn't have done the videos without regular pay from
>>>> ISOC and they received little support from the chapter if I
>>>> remember correctly. I've spoken up on ISOC issues because I
>>>> tilt at many windmills, and received no support from the
>>>> chapter to do so. (In fact, I was told to be more positive
>>>> about ISOC, although my facts were almost never questioned.)
>>>>
>>>> In the last year, the funding for video went up; they are great
>>>> ISOC pr. That may have given the impression "New York" was
>>>> doing a great deal but actually that was ISOC central funding a
>>>> dedicated video person, not a chapter activity.
>>>>
>>>> People not active in the chapter put together an interesting
>>>> project, NY MESH. ISOC provided $20K and the chapter is now
>>>> providing "fiscal agency" for a fee. That's good.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------
>>>>
>>>> Things started to improve when the previous president resigned
>>>> and Joly took over. A proposal to support Net Neutrality was
>>>> pulled back in the name of consensus when the acting President
>>>> opposed the idea.
>>>>
>>>> The results so far are minimal but I hope that will change. In
>>>> 2018, we've had three board meetings that put forth many ideas.
>>>> Google paid $20K which funded two events.
>>>>
>>>> So I hope we'll actually lead in the future, but we haven't so far.
>>>>
>>>> Editor, http://Fastnet.news <http://fastnet.news/>
>>>> http://wirelessone.news <http://wirelessone.news/>
>>>> http://massivemimo.rocks <http://massivemimo.rocks/>
>>>> gfastnews.com <http://gfastnews.com/>
>>>> Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley) and Web Video: Making It
>>>> Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit)
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 1:39 PM, Susannah Gray
>>>> <susannah.gray at gmail.com <mailto:susannah.gray at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Andrea,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 30/03/2018 07:59, Andrea Romaoli Garcia wrote:
>>>>> I don't feel the work hampered by the participation of
>>>>> others but a little bit control will be positive.
>>>>> The way ISOC is set up today allows a work oriented to
>>>>> local needs.
>>>>> I add that Chaptor NY has a greater responsibility and
>>>>> visibility because it drives the other chapters and brings
>>>>> new subjects to discuss for other instituitionscaround the
>>>>> world.
>>>> - What do you mean by ISOC NY 'drives the other chapters'?
>>>>
>>>> Susannah
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> President
>>>> San Francisco Bay Area Internet Society Chapter
>>>> www.sfbayisoc.org <http://www.sfbayisoc.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> A little bit of control is needed but volunteers input
>>>>> can identify new solutions that the meetings routine
>>>>> extinguishes.
>>>>> I don't live in the United States but I've been serving
>>>>> shelters in Washington for volunteering... Well...
>>>>> stakeholders and member must work together
>>>>> There are volunteers and stakeholder with technical
>>>>> ability that is helpful. But I think we should control a
>>>>> hight level to maintain the quality of the discussions
>>>>> and close the doors to those demagogues who do nothing but
>>>>> just wish put their name in the highlightner
>>>>>
>>>>> ANDRÉA ROMAOLI GARCIA
>>>>> OABSP 332.542
>>>>> Director ISOC-NY
>>>>> ICANN Latin American and Caribbean
>>>>> United Nations NY
>>>>> +55 14 99162-3774 <tel:+55%2014%2099162-3774>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 30 Mar 2018, at 10:37, Sivasubramanian M
>>>>> <6.Internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.Internet at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> While ISOC has been successful, we do not know if the
>>>>>> current structure has contributed to that success, or
>>>>>> if ISOC could have been more successful if member-driven.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed. We can not possibly deny that ICANN would be
>>>>>> more successful nor assert that it would be less
>>>>>> successful in a member-driven scenario. What I said was
>>>>>> that it worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I agree with Dave completely, the reality is
>>>>>> giving members control is contrary to the founding
>>>>>> documents and formal structure of ISOC. ISOC is not,
>>>>>> and never has been, a community of members, or
>>>>>> democratic. It is a Trust, organised around managing
>>>>>> a perpetual flow of income. Members do not contribute
>>>>>> to that income, and are therefore powerless. Article
>>>>>> V.1 states “Individual members shall not have any
>>>>>> voting rights with respect to the Society.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The founding documents probably did not anticipate ISOC
>>>>>> to take shape as a Community with several hundred
>>>>>> 'volunteers' of good Technical and Policy expertise. ISOC
>>>>>> unwittingly imparts the impression of a Community driven
>>>>>> organization, and it is this perception that renders
>>>>>> credibility to ISOC's policy advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Internet Society
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>>>> <https://portal.isoc.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>> Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>
>>
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>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>> Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> _______________________________________________
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> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
> Society
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