[Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement

Wed Sep 6 06:41:53 PDT 2017

We, the chapters, must maintain the privilege for final decision. It's working now when done. Under certain rules such as: not receive the same people a fellowship in the last 3 years, for example. The chapters and volunteers will self regulate this.

Carlos Vera

> On Sep 6, 2017, at 5:10 AM, Jahangir Hossain <jrjahangir at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I also put support with Carlos proposal which edited by Nadira  "totally in coordination with chapters volunteers.." 
> 
> We should approve it in next Chapters Advisory Council (ChAC) meeting for more discussion . 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards / Jahangir
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Nadira Alaraj <nadira.araj at gmail.com> wrote:
>> +1 to Carlos proposal, if this phrase "totally under the control of chapters.." 
>> would be edited to "totally in coordination with chapters volunteers.." 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>>> I see that Carlos had made a concrete proposal:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> “Any Fellowship in which ISOC HQ put some money must be
>>> 
>>> totally under the control of chapters..  if not it does not make sense for us to organize people, develop projects, run several meetings, attend monthly meetings with staff and more volunteer work if anyone doing nothing can still have same and even best options to act "representing" our community through fellowships we need to maintain the hard work of the chapters.”
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Do people on this list think that this proposal should be submitted to the Chapters Advisory Council (ChAC)?  If yes, and if the ChAC approved it, then it could be submitted by the ChAC to the Board for consideration.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Richard
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Chapter-delegates [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Vera
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 05:53
>>> To: Alejandro Pisanty
>>> Cc: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Let's put it simple: most chapters with experienced leaders share identical concerns and some chapters with new leadership will do soon or later. 
>>>  
>>> I see identical concerns from Asia, Europe and of course América. And also exactly (as must be in a corporation) the same kind of answers from staff mid and high level. 
>>>  
>>> We are doing our best to keep the chapters working and running in the middle of a necessary balance between local laws, HQ agreement and practical ways of maintain them surviving..  it's simply to understood that the carrot-and-stick approach is not working in favor of a big presence of the chapters but as a way to justify a year to year growing and diverse staff that need more things to control and role to plays or disappear. 
>>>  
>>> We have every year more and more rules, reports, controls and responsibilities that simply put our attention, far away of what really is important: the Internet for everyone objective. 
>>>  
>>> As we have more and more things to do for the staff, we see more and more people receiving fellowships without any chapter intervention, which is also another challenge because the volunteers need some options for them to work. Every time we send some or our most active member to one fellowship we have a returning volunteer working with us. Every time we have an external receiving a fellowship out of the chapter we have an individual who ask for less volunteer work and more fellowships "for free"
>>>  
>>> Any Fellowship in which ISOC HQ put some money must be totally under the control of chapters..  if not it does not make sense for us to organize people, develop projects, run several meetings, attend monthly meetings with staff and more volunteer work if anyone doing nothing can still have same and even best options to act "representing" our community through fellowships we need to maintain the hard work of the chapters. 
>>>  
>>> I respectfully ask to the staff be more productive working closely with chapters and not parallel and even against us as sometimes we all feel.
>>>  
>>> Carlos Vera
>>> 
>>> isoc Ecuador  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Raul,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> indeed and yet not. The Chapter Agreement and related instruments are only as good as the depth to which goals are shared and trust prevails; as good as all parties involved feel they are respected in their professional competence, political experience, and ethical trustworthiness. The Chapters are not satellites and they are not branch offices. They are self-constituted entities which share a mission with all others in the ISOC organization.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The Chapter Agreement has a structural contradiction in the incentives it creates and ISOC central has to be very mindful of this. It requires or at least requests that the Chapters be constituted as full-fledged independent organizations, legally recognized, governed by rules, big enough to allow diversity and a rotation of leadership, of weight enough to be influential in politics and policy, all of which may in turn require legal compliance, a lot of lawyering, administrative burdens for transparency and accountability, dealing with all kinds of authorities, and political exposure both favorable and of risk. Some of our Chapters, further, are in countries where any organized activity is high risk, all the more so if it promotes openness in any of its senses.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> It is hard to ask such an organization to submit itself meekly to a set of administrative requirements without fulfilling at the same time the conditions in my first paragraph above. The Agreement must commit both parts equitably. A pound of flesh from each if that is the measure. And as I have tried to explain many times over the years. ISOC global suffers when it acts regionally or locally without integration. At the very least you end up going to the wrong office and making the wrong statement at the wrong time; and your opportunity cost rises exponentially. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The practical consequence is that you leave yourself more room to accomodate Chapter specifics (there's plenty of staff now for that) and you make and deliver on commitments from HQ that really mean something substantive for the Chapters as parts of a whole larger than the sum of its parts.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Raul Echeberria <echeberria at isoc.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Alejandro, 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Your email goes much beyond the issue of the Revised Chapter Agreement. 
>>> 
>>> I would suggest to keep the focus on this topic on this thread. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Your comments about the role of the staff are not appropriate. The Staff doesn’t play games with the chapters as you suggest neither choose favorites and the only idea of using ISOC resources for supporting those games is something absolutely unacceptable. I’m happy to discuss with you any specific accusation and be sure we would take measure if something like that would be proved.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> With regard to Chapters involvement in international meetings, we have made huge progresses in the last couple of years, in fact you Alejandro yourself have participated in ISOC delegations in a very productive manner. 
>>> 
>>> Next month 5 chapters leaders will join ISOC delegation to WTDC. And this is not an isolated case, this is the habit in present times. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> We always try to coordinate with local chapters in every meeting. Of course, we can make mistakes sometimes, but mistakes are just mistakes, not the way we proceed. In some cases even the problem is not the communication between the Staff and the chapters but the internal communication at the chapter level, 
>>> 
>>> We are happy to correct anything we are doing wrong in that sense, but I hope it could be recognized the effort that has been made in the last few years in this area, not only in implementing fellowship programs oriented to the chapters,  for participating in ISOC delegations to International meetings, but also in the selection of the fellows, according to the recommendations submitted by the Chapters to the Board. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Coming back to the topic of the subject, I think this dialogue has been very fruitful. We have taken notes of all the comments and all your opinions and we will try to accommodate most of them in a new revision of the agreement. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Best regards, 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Raúl 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> El 5 set. 2017, a las 15:13, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com> escribió:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> clearly Chapter officials rotation is not an easy proposition. We go through several generations in the formation of new leaders before some are ready, available, and clear of conflicts for time with their day jobs, as well as conflicts of interest such as working for government in Internet policy-making fields, having clients whose needs in litigation may be at variance with ISOC's positions, and so on. Other than a general call for renewal any crisp-set rules are bound to clash with reality. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The need to incorporate new perspectives and people in leadership must be strengthened internally in the chapter. Otherwise too many incentives are created for intervention and manipulation by ISOC mid-level staff, who can play games with resources, choose favorites, enter into blame games, and on the other hand lose sight of the difficulties and failures of the leadership they choose to support.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Now let's for a minute imagine an ISOC that was built as a federation of independently founded societies, as indeed is the case for a few of the older chapters (and also is a little bit with some new ones, whose members are simultaneously members in some other local organization such as a trade association or an NGO.) What would we agree with a central administration and representation that we created?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> We would put substance first, not form. One egregious disrespect that continues to happen is that ISOC delegations arrive at international events, such as those in the ITU's global and regional processes, without due advance coordination with the local chapter. To their surprise, the local Chapter is all over, invited by the local host, participating in consultations and even drafting documents... all on their own, and not being able to be decisive enough because the "party line" remains unknown. Ditto for ICANN, IGF WSIS Forum and so on. Further ditto for the processes where governments are taking their stuff away from multistakeholder mechanisms altogether. There is an asymmetry of trust that is hurtful to all parties in the long run.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Re-balancing the HQ/Central-Chapter relationship will take much more work than just refining the Charter's provisions for managing Chapters internally. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Borka Jerman Blazic <borka at e5.ijs.si> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> In ISOC SI we had more than 50% Internet wide members that never appeared in the chapter communications or activities.
>>> We did not had as well any information why they were enrolled as our members. In that context I believe that  chapters
>>> should have the responsibility to conduct themselves based on high NGO standards  that are either visible or are checked
>>> each year.  However, being ISOC member global  is  attractive for the chapter membership, but most of the chapter activities
>>> should lay on local institutions and members that are engaged and work within the local community.
>>> 
>>> So any firm restrictions in that context  are not appropriate in the new Chapter agreement.
>>> 
>>> With regards,
>>> 
>>> Borka
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Susannah Gray je 4.9.2017 ob 22:23 napisal:
>>> 
>>> Hi Raul, all
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 01/09/2017 10:41, Raul Echeberria wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <snip>
>>> 
>>> The number of Internet users have increased very much and the number of people involved in Internet development and policy matters have grown very much too. There are several (ISOC runs some of them) programs for developing new leaders. New people is coming on board every year. Youth at IGF, NextGen leaders, Youth SIG, the numerous IG schools are just some examples of those initiatives. We have to learn how to take advantage of all these new leaders that ara being formed by different organizations.
>>> 
>>> - Just a quick comment on this. I am fully in agreement that chapters need to rotate leadership, encourage young leaders and actively engage in succession planning.
>>> 
>>> However, I believe it's not always possible or in the best interests of a chapter to rotate leadership frequently, as several others have pointed out.
>>> 
>>> The SF-Bay Area Chapter has often had trouble recruiting Board Members. In the past, before I joined, I know the Board even talked about closing the chapter (one of the largest with over 2,000 members) because no one wanted to take over the Chair role.
>>> 
>>> Running a successful chapter is similar to having a full time job or running a small business when you consider the amount of administration that needs to be done (website maintenance, finances, reporting taxes, member admin and engagement, social media, project management, event planning, Board meetings, keeping track of mailing lists etc. ).
>>> 
>>> Admin and Board commitments take up a lot of time. Young leaders/those in the Next Gen programs are often at the beginnings of their careers and are working hard to climb the career ladder or are still studying, leaving little time for anything else. They may also not be able to ask for flexibility from an employer to carry out or contribute fully to Board/Chapter duties, which may be easier for people at a more advanced stage of their career.
>>> 
>>> While I would love to have a graduate of any of the programs mentioned above on the SF-Bay Area Chapter Board, my personal opinion is that overstretched Boards generally need people on their Boards who already have Board experience, need little coaching, know the industry and who can jump in and offer much needed advice and support from the outset as this greatly reduces the workload on existing Board members.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> Susannah
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Susannah Gray
>>> President & Chair
>>> San Francisco-Bay Area Internet Society Chapter
>>> www.sfbayisoc.org
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Prof.dr.Borka Jerman-Blažič Head, Laboratory for Open systems and Networks Jožef Stefan Institute and Faculty of Economics, Ljubljana University Slovenia tel. +386 1 477 3408 tel. +386 1 477 3756 mob. +386 41 678 410
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
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>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
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>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 
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