[Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement

Wed Sep 6 03:10:17 PDT 2017

I also put support with Carlos proposal which edited by Nadira  "

totally *in **coordination **with *chapters *volunteers*.."

We should approve it in next Chapters Advisory Council (ChAC) meeting for
more discussion .

*Regards / Jahangir*

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Nadira Alaraj <nadira.araj at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 to Carlos proposal, if this phrase "
> 
> totally under the control of chapters.."
> would be edited to "
> 
> totally *in **coordination **with *chapters *volunteers*.."
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>
>> I see that Carlos had made a concrete proposal:
>>
>>
>>
>> “Any Fellowship in which ISOC HQ put some money must be
>> 
>> totally under the control of chapters..  if not it does not make sense
>> for us to organize people, develop projects, run several meetings, attend
>> monthly meetings with staff and more volunteer work if anyone doing nothing
>> can still have same and even best options to act "representing" our
>> community through fellowships we need to maintain the hard work of the
>> chapters.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Do people on this list think that this proposal should be submitted to
>> the Chapters Advisory Council (ChAC)?  If yes, and if the ChAC approved it,
>> then it could be submitted by the ChAC to the Board for consideration.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chapter-delegates [mailto:chapter-delegates-boun
>> ces at elists.isoc.org] *On Behalf Of *Carlos Vera
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 6, 2017 05:53
>> *To:* Alejandro Pisanty
>> *Cc:* chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's put it simple: most chapters with experienced leaders share
>> identical concerns and some chapters with new leadership will do soon or
>> later.
>>
>>
>>
>> I see identical concerns from Asia, Europe and of course América. And
>> also exactly (as must be in a corporation) the same kind of answers from
>> staff mid and high level.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are doing our best to keep the chapters working and running in the
>> middle of a necessary balance between local laws, HQ agreement and
>> practical ways of maintain them surviving..  it's simply to understood that
>> the carrot-and-stick approach is not working in favor of a big presence of
>> the chapters but as a way to justify a year to year growing and diverse
>> staff that need more things to control and role to plays or disappear.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have every year more and more rules, reports, controls and
>> responsibilities that simply put our attention, far away of what really is
>> important: the Internet for everyone objective.
>>
>>
>>
>> As we have more and more things to do for the staff, we see more and more
>> people receiving fellowships without any chapter intervention, which is
>> also another challenge because the volunteers need some options for them to
>> work. Every time we send some or our most active member to one fellowship
>> we have a returning volunteer working with us. Every time we have an
>> external receiving a fellowship out of the chapter we have an individual
>> who ask for less volunteer work and more fellowships "for free"
>>
>>
>>
>> Any Fellowship in which ISOC HQ put some money must be totally under the
>> control of chapters..  if not it does not make sense for us to organize
>> people, develop projects, run several meetings, attend monthly meetings
>> with staff and more volunteer work if anyone doing nothing can still have
>> same and even best options to act "representing" our community through
>> fellowships we need to maintain the hard work of the chapters.
>>
>>
>>
>> I respectfully ask to the staff be more productive working closely with
>> chapters and not parallel and even against us as sometimes we all feel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos Vera
>>
>> isoc Ecuador
>>
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Raul,
>>
>>
>>
>> indeed and yet not. The Chapter Agreement and related instruments are
>> only as good as the depth to which goals are shared and trust prevails; as
>> good as all parties involved feel they are respected in their professional
>> competence, political experience, and ethical trustworthiness. The Chapters
>> are not satellites and they are not branch offices. They are
>> self-constituted entities which share a mission with all others in the ISOC
>> organization.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Chapter Agreement has a structural contradiction in the incentives it
>> creates and ISOC central has to be very mindful of this. It requires or at
>> least requests that the Chapters be constituted as full-fledged independent
>> organizations, legally recognized, governed by rules, big enough to allow
>> diversity and a rotation of leadership, of weight enough to be influential
>> in politics and policy, all of which may in turn require legal compliance,
>> a lot of lawyering, administrative burdens for transparency and
>> accountability, dealing with all kinds of authorities, and political
>> exposure both favorable and of risk. Some of our Chapters, further, are in
>> countries where any organized activity is high risk, all the more so if it
>> promotes openness in any of its senses.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is hard to ask such an organization to submit itself meekly to a set
>> of administrative requirements without fulfilling at the same time the
>> conditions in my first paragraph above. The Agreement must commit both
>> parts equitably. A pound of flesh from each if that is the measure. And as
>> I have tried to explain many times over the years. ISOC global suffers when
>> it acts regionally or locally without integration. At the very least you
>> end up going to the wrong office and making the wrong statement at the
>> wrong time; and your opportunity cost rises exponentially.
>>
>>
>>
>> The practical consequence is that you leave yourself more room to
>> accomodate Chapter specifics (there's plenty of staff now for that) and you
>> make and deliver on commitments from HQ that really mean something
>> substantive for the Chapters as parts of a whole larger than the sum of its
>> parts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Raul Echeberria <echeberria at isoc.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Alejandro,
>>
>>
>>
>> Your email goes much beyond the issue of the Revised Chapter Agreement.
>>
>> I would suggest to keep the focus on this topic on this thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your comments about the role of the staff are not appropriate. The Staff
>> doesn’t play games with the chapters as you suggest neither choose
>> favorites and the only idea of using ISOC resources for supporting those
>> games is something absolutely unacceptable. I’m happy to discuss with you
>> any specific accusation and be sure we would take measure if something like
>> that would be proved.
>>
>>
>>
>> With regard to Chapters involvement in international meetings, we have
>> made huge progresses in the last couple of years, in fact you Alejandro
>> yourself have participated in ISOC delegations in a very productive manner.
>>
>> Next month 5 chapters leaders will join ISOC delegation to WTDC. And this
>> is not an isolated case, this is the habit in present times.
>>
>>
>>
>> We always try to coordinate with local chapters in every meeting. Of
>> course, we can make mistakes sometimes, but mistakes are just mistakes, not
>> the way we proceed. In some cases even the problem is not the communication
>> between the Staff and the chapters but the internal communication at the
>> chapter level,
>>
>> We are happy to correct anything we are doing wrong in that sense, but I
>> hope it could be recognized the effort that has been made in the last few
>> years in this area, not only in implementing fellowship programs oriented
>> to the chapters,  for participating in ISOC delegations to International
>> meetings, but also in the selection of the fellows, according to the
>> recommendations submitted by the Chapters to the Board.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Coming back to the topic of the subject, I think this dialogue has been
>> very fruitful. We have taken notes of all the comments and all your
>> opinions and we will try to accommodate most of them in a new revision of
>> the agreement.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Raúl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 5 set. 2017, a las 15:13, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com>
>> escribió:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> clearly Chapter officials rotation is not an easy proposition. We go
>> through several generations in the formation of new leaders before some are
>> ready, available, and clear of conflicts for time with their day jobs, as
>> well as conflicts of interest such as working for government in Internet
>> policy-making fields, having clients whose needs in litigation may be at
>> variance with ISOC's positions, and so on. Other than a general call for
>> renewal any crisp-set rules are bound to clash with reality.
>>
>>
>>
>> The need to incorporate new perspectives and people in leadership must be
>> strengthened internally in the chapter. Otherwise too many incentives are
>> created for intervention and manipulation by ISOC mid-level staff, who can
>> play games with resources, choose favorites, enter into blame games, and on
>> the other hand lose sight of the difficulties and failures of the
>> leadership they choose to support.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now let's for a minute imagine an ISOC that was built as a federation of
>> independently founded societies, as indeed is the case for a few of the
>> older chapters (and also is a little bit with some new ones, whose members
>> are simultaneously members in some other local organization such as a trade
>> association or an NGO.) What would we agree with a central administration
>> and representation that we created?
>>
>>
>>
>> We would put substance first, not form. One egregious disrespect that
>> continues to happen is that ISOC delegations arrive at international
>> events, such as those in the ITU's global and regional processes, without
>> due advance coordination with the local chapter. To their surprise, the
>> local Chapter is all over, invited by the local host, participating in
>> consultations and even drafting documents... all on their own, and not
>> being able to be decisive enough because the "party line" remains unknown.
>> Ditto for ICANN, IGF WSIS Forum and so on. Further ditto for the processes
>> where governments are taking their stuff away from multistakeholder
>> mechanisms altogether. There is an asymmetry of trust that is hurtful to
>> all parties in the long run.
>>
>>
>>
>> Re-balancing the HQ/Central-Chapter relationship will take much more work
>> than just refining the Charter's provisions for managing Chapters
>> internally.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Borka Jerman Blazic <borka at e5.ijs.si>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In ISOC SI we had more than 50% Internet wide members that never appeared
>> in the chapter communications or activities.
>> We did not had as well any information why they were enrolled as our
>> members. In that context I believe that  chapters
>> should have the responsibility to conduct themselves based on high NGO
>> standards  that are either visible or are checked
>> each year.  However, being ISOC member global  is  attractive for the
>> chapter membership, but most of the chapter activities
>> should lay on local institutions and members that are engaged and work
>> within the local community.
>>
>> So any firm restrictions in that context  are not appropriate in the new
>> Chapter agreement.
>>
>> With regards,
>>
>> Borka
>>
>>
>> Susannah Gray je 4.9.2017 ob 22:23 napisal:
>>
>> Hi Raul, all
>>
>>
>> On 01/09/2017 10:41, Raul Echeberria wrote:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> The number of Internet users have increased very much and the number of
>> people involved in Internet development and policy matters have grown very
>> much too. There are several (ISOC runs some of them) programs for
>> developing new leaders. New people is coming on board every year. Youth at
>> IGF, NextGen leaders, Youth SIG, the numerous IG schools are just some
>> examples of those initiatives. We have to learn how to take advantage of
>> all these new leaders that ara being formed by different organizations.
>>
>> - Just a quick comment on this. I am fully in agreement that chapters
>> need to rotate leadership, encourage young leaders and actively engage in
>> succession planning.
>>
>> However, I believe it's not always possible or in the best interests of a
>> chapter to rotate leadership frequently, as several others have pointed out.
>>
>> The SF-Bay Area Chapter has often had trouble recruiting Board Members.
>> In the past, before I joined, I know the Board even talked about closing
>> the chapter (one of the largest with over 2,000 members) because no one
>> wanted to take over the Chair role.
>>
>> Running a successful chapter is similar to having a full time job or
>> running a small business when you consider the amount of administration
>> that needs to be done (website maintenance, finances, reporting taxes,
>> member admin and engagement, social media, project management, event
>> planning, Board meetings, keeping track of mailing lists etc. ).
>>
>> Admin and Board commitments take up a lot of time. Young leaders/those in
>> the Next Gen programs are often at the beginnings of their careers and are
>> working hard to climb the career ladder or are still studying, leaving
>> little time for anything else. They may also not be able to ask for
>> flexibility from an employer to carry out or contribute fully to
>> Board/Chapter duties, which may be easier for people at a more advanced
>> stage of their career.
>>
>> While I would love to have a graduate of any of the programs mentioned
>> above on the SF-Bay Area Chapter Board, my personal opinion is that
>> overstretched Boards generally need people on their Boards who already have
>> Board experience, need little coaching, know the industry and who can jump
>> in and offer much needed advice and support from the outset as this greatly
>> reduces the workload on existing Board members.
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Susannah
>>
>> ---
>> Susannah Gray
>> President & Chair
>> San Francisco-Bay Area Internet Society Chapter
>> www.sfbayisoc.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Prof.dr.Borka Jerman-Blažič Head, Laboratory for Open systems and
>> Networks Jožef Stefan Institute and Faculty of Economics, Ljubljana
>> University Slovenia tel. +386 1 477 3408 <+386%201%20477%2034%2008> tel. +386
>> 1 477 3756 <+386%201%20477%2037%2056> mob. +386 41 678 410
>> <+386%2041%20678%20410>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> +52-1-5541444475 <+52%201%2055%204144%204475> FROM ABROAD
>> +525541444475 <+52%2055%204144%204475> DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> <+52%2055%204144%204475>
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/
>> 22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> +52-1-5541444475 <+52%201%2055%204144%204475> FROM ABROAD
>> +525541444475 <+52%2055%204144%204475> DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> <+52%2055%204144%204475>
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/
>> 22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/chapter-delegates/attachments/20170906/2e559522/attachment.htm>