[Chapter-delegates] New ATLARGE Structure Internet Society China

[Chester Soong]

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The BJ Government has been pouring money to buy their support on 
anything from a UN seat to NGO presence, and ISC is definitely 
government influenced, if not controlled. I am not a veteran of the ALS 
but if "check-and-balance" is what we hope ALS can achieve here, then it 
is worth escalating. But in my opinion, a state-run university is 
different from an organization from a state-run university as long as 
the organization truly represents its students, not the university's 
administration.

Regards,

Chester

On 2/22/2016 10:32 AM, Winthrop Yu wrote:
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>    Agree with Chester and Alejandro. Satish does raise the point that
> ISC has engaged and contributed at various ICANN events. But given those
> engagements and any considerations attendant to Fadi's parting "turn to
> the East", how does this affect the requirements for an ALS?
>
>    Grigori points-out that in some countries "legitimate" NGOs may not
> affiliate too closely with foreign interests (all this subject to
> interpretation by state authorities). The other side of that coin are
> At-Large strictures that an ALS should not be government "controlled",
> for which (IIRC) some applicants have been denied ALS status - wasn't
> there a case of a university org not being allowed as an ALS because the
> university was state-run and the org was being partly subsidized or
> supported by the state university? (Check me on this, my memory is
> spotty here.)
>
>    So, ISC's "good deeds" aside, how are the requirements for an ALS now
> interpreted?
>
> WYn
>
>
>
> On 2/22/2016 10:05 AM, Chester Soong wrote:
>> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I have little choice but to agree with Alejandro's comments below. ISC of
>> China  does not represent the views of the general Internet users in
>> China.
>> If they do represent any view of anyone at all, it will be the
>> government's
>> or the CP's view I am afraid.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Chester
>>
>> On 2/22/2016 2:01 AM, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> the issue of "Internet Society of China" runs much deeper than
>>> trademarks and other possible forms of intellectual property over
>>> the name. The key issue is the nature of the organization - and
>>> unfortunately that leads to the nature of decision making in APRALO too.
>>>
>>> The ISC is *not* a self-standing, membership-driven or cause-oriented
>>> NGO comparable to most if not all chapters of ISOC, and ISOC itself. It
>>> is a policy branch of organizations driven from the top or at least
>>> which are force to toe (not tow, Alan) the party lilne. The analogy
>>> between a "party line" in ISOC and a party line in China is laughable.
>>>
>>> It is very difficult - from past experience at least - to say that ISC
>>> carries the voice of at-large, general Internet users of China and thus
>>> is a legitimate At Large Structure as defined withiin the At-Large space
>>> of ICANN. On the other hand, the APRALO leadership has often been seen
>>> to act in ways that are consistent with the interpretation that they
>>> consider it necessary to yield to power- and other geopolitically-based
>>> considerations.
>>>
>>> I hope some Asia-Pacific chapters which are also ALSs can deliver
>>> whatever results from a discussion in this space to the APRALO
>>> leadership. Unfortunately it will be very difficult to revert this
>>> decision even if it is proven wrong.
>>>
>>> (I'm open to new information about recent changes in ISC that could
>>> upturn the above, of course.)
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Eric Burger
>>> <eburger at standardstrack.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, trademarks are by their nature national. To protect the brand,
>>> ISOC (ours) would need to register is lots and lots of countries.
>>> That may not be possible from a legal perspective in all countries
>>> and is unquestionably cost prohibitive to register in many countries.
>>>
>>> As for isoctoronto.org <http://isoctoronto.org>, it looks like a
>>> phishing site. That might violate .ORG terms of service. I’ll ask.
>>>
>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Grigori Saghyan
>>>> <gregor at arminco.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In some countries NGOs have no rights to have any foreign
>>>> supervisor (may be there is a more correct word, which describes
>>>> relationship  of  ISOC and its  Chapters )
>>>> structure,  any dependance is prohibited. If ISC is in such
>>>> situation, it is better to find a solution for thier case, it is
>>>> not a simple question.
>>>> Grigori Saghyan
>>>> ISOC.AM <http://ISOC.AM>
>>>>
>>>> On 21.02.2016 18:15, Glenn McKnight wrote:
>>>>> Hi Folks
>>>>> Recently the  ICANN ATLARGE  voted to include the civil society
>>>>> organization called    Internet Society China into the  ALS
>>>>> membership of APRALO.   They are not a  ISOC  Chapter.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have  tried to bring up the issue of  organizations that
>>>>> confuse the public as to what is a legitimate ISOC chapter. But
>>>>>  no one has  taken notice.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have  been notified  ISOC  that  the
>>>>> <http://www.isoctoronto.org/>www.isoctoronto.org
>>>>> <http://www.isoctoronto.org/>    has been  a rogue  site for  a
>>>>> few years   I am including a screencapture of the  registration
>>>>> page they have  people  falsely add their information.
>>>>> We need to have a process of  dealing with these type of  false
>>>>> or rogue sites that  misinform the public.   Since  ISOC is
>>>>>  branding itself as a viable strong organization and it turns a
>>>>> blind eye to this situation we have a problem.
>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>