[Chapter-delegates] New ATLARGE Structure Internet Society China

Winthrop Yu w.yu at gmx.net
Sun Feb 21 18:32:29 PST 2016


   Agree with Chester and Alejandro. Satish does raise the point that ISC has 
engaged and contributed at various ICANN events. But given those engagements and 
any considerations attendant to Fadi's parting "turn to the East", how does this 
affect the requirements for an ALS?

   Grigori points-out that in some countries "legitimate" NGOs may not affiliate 
too closely with foreign interests (all this subject to interpretation by state 
authorities). The other side of that coin are At-Large strictures that an ALS 
should not be government "controlled", for which (IIRC) some applicants have 
been denied ALS status - wasn't there a case of a university org not being 
allowed as an ALS because the university was state-run and the org was being 
partly subsidized or supported by the state university? (Check me on this, my 
memory is spotty here.)

   So, ISC's "good deeds" aside, how are the requirements for an ALS now 
interpreted?

WYn



On 2/22/2016 10:05 AM, Chester Soong wrote:
> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro*
> Dear All,
>
> I have little choice but to agree with Alejandro's comments below. ISC of
> China  does not represent the views of the general Internet users in China.
> If they do represent any view of anyone at all, it will be the government's
> or the CP's view I am afraid.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Chester
>
> On 2/22/2016 2:01 AM, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> the issue of "Internet Society of China" runs much deeper than
>> trademarks and other possible forms of intellectual property over
>> the name. The key issue is the nature of the organization - and
>> unfortunately that leads to the nature of decision making in APRALO too.
>>
>> The ISC is *not* a self-standing, membership-driven or cause-oriented
>> NGO comparable to most if not all chapters of ISOC, and ISOC itself. It
>> is a policy branch of organizations driven from the top or at least
>> which are force to toe (not tow, Alan) the party lilne. The analogy
>> between a "party line" in ISOC and a party line in China is laughable.
>>
>> It is very difficult - from past experience at least - to say that ISC
>> carries the voice of at-large, general Internet users of China and thus
>> is a legitimate At Large Structure as defined withiin the At-Large space
>> of ICANN. On the other hand, the APRALO leadership has often been seen
>> to act in ways that are consistent with the interpretation that they
>> consider it necessary to yield to power- and other geopolitically-based
>> considerations.
>>
>> I hope some Asia-Pacific chapters which are also ALSs can deliver
>> whatever results from a discussion in this space to the APRALO
>> leadership. Unfortunately it will be very difficult to revert this
>> decision even if it is proven wrong.
>>
>> (I'm open to new information about recent changes in ISC that could
>> upturn the above, of course.)
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Eric Burger
>> <eburger at standardstrack.com> wrote:
>>
>> Also, trademarks are by their nature national. To protect the brand,
>> ISOC (ours) would need to register is lots and lots of countries.
>> That may not be possible from a legal perspective in all countries
>> and is unquestionably cost prohibitive to register in many countries.
>>
>> As for isoctoronto.org <http://isoctoronto.org>, it looks like a
>> phishing site. That might violate .ORG terms of service. I’ll ask.
>>
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Grigori Saghyan
>>> <gregor at arminco.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In some countries NGOs have no rights to have any foreign
>>> supervisor (may be there is a more correct word, which describes
>>> relationship  of  ISOC and its  Chapters )
>>> structure,  any dependance is prohibited. If ISC is in such
>>> situation, it is better to find a solution for thier case, it is
>>> not a simple question.
>>> Grigori Saghyan
>>> ISOC.AM <http://ISOC.AM>
>>>
>>> On 21.02.2016 18:15, Glenn McKnight wrote:
>>>> Hi Folks
>>>> Recently the  ICANN ATLARGE  voted to include the civil society
>>>> organization called    Internet Society China into the  ALS
>>>> membership of APRALO.   They are not a  ISOC  Chapter.
>>>>
>>>> I have  tried to bring up the issue of  organizations that
>>>> confuse the public as to what is a legitimate ISOC chapter. But
>>>>  no one has  taken notice.
>>>>
>>>>  I have  been notified  ISOC  that  the
>>>> <http://www.isoctoronto.org/>www.isoctoronto.org
>>>> <http://www.isoctoronto.org/>    has been  a rogue  site for  a
>>>> few years   I am including a screencapture of the  registration
>>>> page they have  people  falsely add their information.
>>>> We need to have a process of  dealing with these type of  false
>>>> or rogue sites that  misinform the public.   Since  ISOC is
>>>>  branding itself as a viable strong organization and it turns a
>>>> blind eye to this situation we have a problem.
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________




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