[Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter
Alex Corenthin
alex.corenthin at isoc.sn
Mon Sep 30 02:05:02 PDT 2013
+1 victor
ISOC Senegal Chapter
Alex
Le 27/09/13 13:05, Victor Ndonnang a écrit :
>
> +1 Ted,
>
> I'm following with great attention this discussion initiated by the
> Cambodian Chapter intention to leave the Internet society Great family
> which lead to the old debate about ISOC's direct financial support to
> Chapters. Before I continue, I would like to clearly express my
> opposition to that. For me, It is important and better for ISOC HQ to
> empower Chapters rather than giving them money. Chapters are not
> "national bureau" of the Internet Society. ISOC Chapters and ISOC
> Global are partners who share the same vision and the mission. The
> direct financial support to Chapters for their administrative and
> running costs will make the Chapters useless, dependent and
> non-sustainable. If we put in place the systematic direct financial
> support from ISOC HQ to Chapters, we will see many useless Chapters
> flourish around the world only to benefit to that direct financial
> support.
>
> The belonging to the ISOC great family comes with advantages but also
> responsibilities. The Internet Society is already supporting and
> empowering Chapters in many ways:
>
> -The community Grants programme gives priority to Chapters projects
>
> -The Event funding programme which helps to keep the Chapter active
> each year
>
> -The Web presence support
>
> -The travel support
>
> -Capacities Building and Leadership Program
>
> -International Handbook for Chapters
>
> -Management Tools
>
> -Etc . You can read more on :
> http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/chapters/lead
>
> All those programs are ways of "indirect" financial support of ISOC to
> Chapters. Many will say it is not enough, but for me It is enough!
> Chapters should search for others sources of funding locally and
> International using the prestige and add-value of been part of ISOC.
> Chapters should think to create recurrent activities that can generate
> revenues and help them be independent financially and of course
> sustainable. I know Chapters are non-profit organization or group, but
> been non-profit do not means that we cannot generate revenues or sell
> our expertise (gained from ISOC and others Chapters) and services
> locally. For example, when we organize trainings, we can ask
> participants for small participation fees and this can help us
> overcome our administrative and running costs. But we can only do this
> in a sustainable way when we are registered as a legal entity in our
> respective country.
>
> Let come back to issue which brings this discussion live: Making ISOC
> Cambodia Chapter a legal entity in Cambodia.
>
> I know how It is difficult to establish a non-profit organization in
> many countries, especially in developing countries. When I started the
> "re-formation" process of ISOC Cameroon Chapter, I made that goal my
> N°1 priority and which the help (time and money) of others founding
> members, we achieved it. We had the choice at that time to legalize
> the Cameroon Chapter as a NGO or Association. The process to become an
> NGO was too complicated, so we choice to be registered as an
> Association (a sort of small NGO). This is very important because
> Chapters can only be respected locally and interact freely with
> government, private sector and other groups when they are registered
> as a legal entity by the local administrative authorities.
>
> Based on that experience, I suggest to our Cambodia Chapter colleagues
> to explore all alternatives of legal recognition in their country. Be
> registered as a NGO is not the only way to become a legal non-profit
> organization or entity, I hope this is true in Cambodia too.
>
> When the Chapter is registered as a legal entity (NGO, Association...)
> in its respective country, it can easily search or apply to local
> funding opportunities (government grants, big national corporates
> grants...). The formation an ISOC Chapter is a process and Chapter
> founding members are aware during the process that ISOC HQ will not be
> the only source of funding for the Chapter (that's why there is a
> mention about "Chapter supporters" in the application form and means
> of funding the draft By-Laws). Let's search for others sources of
> funding and thanks the ISOC HQ for all It is already offering us
> rather than fighting for something which will make us useless.
>
> Sorry for the long email.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Victor Ndonnang
>
> *De :*chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
> [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] *De la part de* Ted
> Mooney
> *Envoyé :* jeudi 26 septembre 2013 17:10
> *À :* ISOC Chapter Delegates
> *Objet :* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the
> Cambodian Chapter
>
> From my perspective these are all very good thoughts that have not
> only made me reconsider the way I speak to the community at large, but
> also how to move forward with a more productive dialog regarding
> administrative support for Chapters. There are quite rightfully, many
> different ideas how to proceed and as we all know, no single framework
> will be effective in all cases.
>
> The first full meeting of the Chapter Administrative Support Working
> Group (there have been conversations and emails pulling the group
> together and agreeing an agenda) will take place next week and there
> will be a report out to the chapter delegates regarding the outcome
> and next steps.
>
> Grigori asked that someone address why direct financial support was
> not immediately forthcoming. The reason is that at this point, there
> isn't a sufficient amount of money to assure fairness or even success,
> no fully developed plan to assure buy-in or understand the impact, no
> measurement or funds-accounting mechanisms. However, I fully expect
> progress on all these fronts by the end of the year and beyond.
>
> Let me also point out that a number of chapters have resolved these
> issues on their own from which many lessons can be learned. The
> autonomy of ISOC Chapters is a critical part of your overall
> effectiveness and ability to drive our mission locally. It comes with
> a high degree of self-determination and a degree of self-sufficiency
> which many of you have not only embraced, but insisted upon. I ask
> you to please put aside past resentments regarding the perception of
> ISOC as a "rich" organization when support of our global mission on
> so many fronts requires investment many times our capability. Senior
> leadership of the Internet Society supports constant vigilance and
> adjustment of our funding priorities to assure our communities are
> armed as best they can be to support the ISOC Global mission. These
> processes are neither quick nor simple. But your voices are heard and
> are having an impact, however glacial the speed of their
> implementation. In this light, I call upon the Cambodian Chapter once
> again, to reconsider it's decision to leave the Internet Society and
> work on a plan for the short and long term viability of our mission there.
>
> With great regards,
>
> Ted
>
> Ted Mooney
>
> Senior Director, Membership & Services
>
> The Internet Society
>
> 1775 Wiehle Avenue
>
> Reston, VA 20190 USA
>
> Office: +1 703-439-2774
>
> Cell: +1 301-980-6446
>
> eMail: mooney at isoc.org
>
> *From: *Shreedeep Rayamajhi <weaker41 at gmail.com
> <mailto:weaker41 at gmail.com>>
> *Date: *Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:26 AM
> *To: *Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com
> <mailto:eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>>
> *Cc: *ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the
> Cambodian Chapter
>
> I meant to say the communication can differ from people and channel so
> it has be standardized and centralized accordingly, the confusion in
> between the can create problems
>
>
> Cheers to Life
> Shreedeep Rayamajhi
> 00977-9841374547(Nepal)
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal)
>
> 00977-9813900099
>
> +1(301)485-9395(US)
> <http://www.rayznews.com/>
>
> *DISCLAIMER:*This message is intended only for the recipient. If you
> are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing,
> copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents
> of this information is strictly prohibited.
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Eduardo Diaz
> <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Shreedeep:
>
> Can you be so kind in explaining the meaning of the last sentence in
> your message? I can interpret it in many different ways.
>
> Thanks
>
> -ed
>
> President
>
> ISOC-Puerto Rico
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Shreedeep Rayamajhi
> <weaker41 at gmail.com <mailto:weaker41 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear all
>
> We all are proud to be part of the Internet society and to some extent
> it is our pride and prestige to say we are located through out the
> world. As said big powers come with bigger Responsibilities just like
> that we need to address the issue of Cambodian chapter by every
> possible means.It counts for every member that stand for change and
> with such situation ISOC can certainly help the chapter. Its not just
> about the rules and principle but on practical ground if there is a
> possibility from the ISOC headquarters then they should help because
> it makes a difference.
>
> ISOC and its role model of economic independence can be understood and
> the pros and cons of funding a chapter is the part of the ISOC board
> or whom it may be concern but in reality if there is a possibility for
> the Cambodian chapter to help then ISOC should by all means.
>
> I think the communication in between the chapters +chapter
> leaders+ISOC broad needs to be neutralized in every possible way.
>
>
> Cheers to Life
> Shreedeep Rayamajhi
> 00977-9841374547(Nepal)
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal)
>
> 00977-9813900099
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shreedeep_Rayamajhi_(activist)
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shreedeep_Rayamajhi_%28activist%29>
>
> +1(301)485-9395 <tel:%2B1%28301%29485-9395>(US)
> *Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.* <http://www.rayznews.com/>
>
> *DISCLAIMER:*This message is intended only for the recipient. If you
> are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing,
> copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents
> of this information is strictly prohibited.
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Eduard Tric <eduard.tric at isoc.ro
> <mailto:eduard.tric at isoc.ro>> wrote:
>
> A few years ago , i had the opportunity to participate in a task force
> called "Isoc chapter of the future".
> One of the conclusions was that there has to be a balance between what
> HQ offer to the capters (direct financial support was barley mentioned
> , among other forms of support ) and what chapters should provide to
> HQ (some form of activity , or growth).
> If direct financial support is not an option, the "why" part should be
> explained in detail.
> In that case , indirect support should be enhanced (raise community
> grants budget and leadership training for chapter key persons )
> Regards,
> Ed
>
> ----- Mesaj original -----
> De la: "Grigori Saghyan" <gregor at arminco.com <mailto:gregor at arminco.com>>
> Ca(tre: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> Trimis: joi, 26 septembrie, 2013 3:07:04
> Subiect: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the
> Cambodian Chapter
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Dear All,
> from the formal point "chapter" is a part of one large structure. I
> think it is to have clearly defined relations between "Chapters" (or
> local ISOC structures) and whom? I use "ISOC Global" term, but may be
> "Management" or "HQ or "Board" is better? For each of proposed terms
> there is some uncertainty.
>
> After Cambodian declaration it looks, that there only one real way to
> draw attention to Chapter problems.
>
> Btw, why it is such strong negative reaction for direct financial
> support? And as we see, there is an expression " The issue of the lack
> of direct financial transfers is currently not among
> the solutions the Internet Society can offer".
>
> Here we see the author: it is the "Internet Society".
> Not the Board, not the staff, not the management, not ISOC Global,
> but the "Internet Society"
> Logically, I can understand, that as a Chapter, our Chapter was
> involved in some kind of discussion on that point, there was a voting
> procedure, and such decision was approved by majority? But we do not
> participated in such procedure.
> On the the other hand, if the Chapter is real "chapter" - a part of a
> large structure the "Internet Society" - it is not necessary to ask
> Chapter's opinion.
>
> Clear definition of terms is one of the strongest requirements
> everywhere, I think it is one of the most important points today for
> ISOC community (also undefined term).
>
>
>
> Grigori Saghyan
> ISOC.AM <http://ISOC.AM>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26.09.2013 0:19, Elver Loho wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I haven't kept up with this email list, but from what I can gather
> > the Cambodian Chapter wants to disassociate from ISOC due to lack
> > of direct financial support for the basic running and operation of
> > the Chapter.
> >
> > I do not speak for my Chapter here, but personally I
> > wholeheartedly support this gesture. If this happens, then maybe,
> > just maybe, ISOC senior staff will start taking the issue of
> > providing support for Chapters around the world seriously.
> >
> > Right now Chapters seem to exist more as a way for ISOC HQ to show
> > that they have support and members around the world. We're all
> > providing a sort of legitimacy for the people at the HQ. Do we get
> > something back for this? Sort of. I mean, maybe. To some degree.
> > Though here in Estonia very few people have heard of the Internet
> > Society while our own local language brand carries a lot of
> > weight. Your situation may be different.
> >
> > Meanwhile we're battling with basic organizational issues, because
> > we can't even afford to keep up basic maintenance. At times we're
> > even unable to reply to government's requests for comments on
> > pending legislation, because we all have regular jobs or businesses
> > to run. This has to end. If what it takes is for one or more
> > Chapters to secede from the union, then so be it. If the Cambodian
> > Chapter goes through with this, I'm willing to put the question of
> > secession up for debate in our own Chapter.
> >
> > I urge other Chapter leaders to consider the same.
> >
> > Best, Elver .ee
> >
> > elver.loho at gmail.com <mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com> +372 5661 6933
> <tel:%2B372%205661%206933> skype: elver.loho
> >
> >
> > On 25 September 2013 22:56, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com
> <mailto:daveb at dslprime.com>>
> > wrote:
> >> Cambodian colleagues
> >>
> >> I'm a board member in New York and respect your decision but urge
> >> you to keep working to resolve this. The board of ISOC is
> >> strongly committed to working with chapters and directed staff to
> >> improve things. If that's broken down here, as it seems, several
> >> board members are surely willing to help. They are dedicated,
> >> committed people who make a point fo responding to ISOC chapter
> >> members. I or a dozen others on this list can connect you if
> >> that makes things easier.
> >>
> >> They are all strong and independent thinkers, most with a no
> >> b______ attitude.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >> Thanks for addressing this; leaving it without response would
> >> have been painful. This is a crisis for the goverance model of
> >> ISOC that needs to be resolved at the highest level. As you saw
> >> from this list, a dozen other chapters think this crucial to
> >> solve.
> >>
> >> But "The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is
> >> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can offer"
> >> doesn't seem to the point. Is there anything in the ISOC charter
> >> that makes this impossible? If so, please point to it and people
> >> can bring it to the board.
> >>
> >> "Can" is the word you used. I'm guessing this actually is an
> >> administrative decision made by the senior staff, who can, if
> >> they choose, simply reverse the decision. Staff are constantly
> >> making financial decisions an order of magnitude greater. If
> >> staff feel they can't do this without board approval, that's easy
> >> to obtain if it's important to ISOC. As many of us know, most of
> >> the board members are very accessible and dedicated to solving
> >> ISOC problems if necessary.
> >>
> >> "Should" ISOC provide the seed funding here, necessary to get the
> >> chapter started on the path to independence is the real question.
> >> I'm sure there's a lot more here than the presumably modest sum
> >> to share some office space. Likely, a shared or cheap office
> >> space that fits the legal requirements can be obtained for less
> >> than the cost of sending one more talking head to IGF Bali.
> >> Nothing wrong with IGF, but a slightly smaller ISOC delegation
> >> isn't a fatal wound.
> >>
> >> I don't know enough to decide whether ISOC should do more here
> >> and I'm sure there are major issues that haven't been discussed.
> >>
> >> So let's draw in Lynn, Walda or whomever else actually has the
> >> power to make things happen and prevent a deep organizational
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> db
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Ted Mooney <mooney at isoc.org
> <mailto:mooney at isoc.org>>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> To all Chapter Delegates
> >>>
> >>> ISOC Staff and, in particular, Membership and Services, are
> >>> saddened by the recent decision and communication from the
> >>> Cambodian Chapter regarding their desire to dissociate from the
> >>> Internet Society for administrative and other support concerns.
> >>> I believe, however, there has been an unfortunate
> >>> miscommunication. The Chapter Development and APAC staff have
> >>> reached out to the Cambodian Chapter on numerous occasions. As
> >>> many of you know, our Chapter Development team has worked with
> >>> other chapters to help address issues nearly identical to what
> >>> the Cambodian Chapter is experiencing. Our offer of
> >>> collaboration remains.
> >>>
> >>> The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is
> >>> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can
> >>> offer. There are, nevertheless many other avenues to address
> >>> the administrative support of the Chapter, which are both local
> >>> and long term. Indeed Staff are working with Chapter
> >>> volunteers and have convened a new Chapter Administrative
> >>> Support Working Group to address this issue broadly. We hope
> >>> the Cambodian Chapter will reassess their position and
> >>> re-engage with ISOC staff as soon as possible. Our Chapter
> >>> Development staff will reach out once again to the Cambodian
> >>> Chapter officers.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Ted Ted Mooney Senior Director, Membership & Services The
> >>> Internet Society 1775 Wiehle Avenue Reston, VA 20190 USA
> >>> Office: +1 703-439-2774 <tel:%2B1%20703-439-2774> Cell: +1
> 301-980-6446 <tel:%2B1%20301-980-6446> eMail:
> >>> mooney at isoc.org <mailto:mooney at isoc.org>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to
> >>> this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
> >>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud
> >> Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video:
> >> Making It Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> >> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> >> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> > _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> > Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> > list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >
>
>
> - --
> Grigori Saghyan
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> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
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> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
> --
>
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
>
>
> --
>
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> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
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