[Chapter-delegates] Money, money, money (was: Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter)
Bernie Hoeneisen
bernie at ietf.hoeneisen.ch
Mon Sep 30 05:02:27 PDT 2013
Hi Victor et al.
I agree with you (Victor). We must avoid money being the motivation
for "running" an ISOC Chapter; money quite often attracts the "wrong
folks".
However, related to the support ISOC currently provides, we face a major
challenge with the Event funding model. Event funding is capped at 2000
USD per year and Chapter. Whereas in many countries 2000 USD is more than
enough to fully cover one or even two events per year, in "high-cost"
countries this can only cover a small proporation of an event's budget.
For example, the Switzerland Chapter is organizing a national event on
Privacy on Nov 18th (by volunteers only):
http://www.isoc.ch/events/saying-good-bye-to-pricacy
The event budget sums up to ~18'000 USD (high price level in Switzerland
and exchange rate of our [too strong] currency), i.e. the ISOC Event
Funding can cover roughly 10% of the whole budget.
So far we could raise only around 200 CHF (~220 USD).
(Towards the end of the year sponsoring gets tough, as most companies
have spent their annual sponsoring budget for 2013 already.)
We may need to cancel the whole event for financial reasons; ISOC
cannot help us so much either (due to the cap of USD 2000 for Event
funding).
I therefore suggest a change / refinement of the Event Funding model, i.e.
a cap that better reflects the avarage cost level in different parts of
the world as opposed to the current "one-size-fits-all" policy.
cheers,
Bernie, Chairman of ISOC Switzerland Chapter (as an individual)
--
http://ucom.ch/
Tech Consulting for Internet Technology
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013, Victor Ndonnang wrote:
>
> +1 Ted,
>
>
>
> I’m following with great attention this discussion initiated by the Cambodian Chapter intention to leave the Internet society Great
> family which lead to the old debate about ISOC’s direct financial support to Chapters. Before I continue, I would like to clearly
> express my opposition to that. For me, It is important and better for ISOC HQ to empower Chapters rather than giving them money.
> Chapters are not “national bureau” of the Internet Society. ISOC Chapters and ISOC Global are partners who share the same vision
> and the mission. The direct financial support to Chapters for their administrative and running costs will make the Chapters
> useless, dependent and non-sustainable. If we put in place the systematic direct financial support from ISOC HQ to Chapters, we
> will see many useless Chapters flourish around the world only to benefit to that direct financial support.
>
>
>
> The belonging to the ISOC great family comes with advantages but also responsibilities. The Internet Society is already supporting
> and empowering Chapters in many ways:
>
> - The community Grants programme gives priority to Chapters projects
>
> - The Event funding programme which helps to keep the Chapter active each year
>
> - The Web presence support
>
> - The travel support
>
> - Capacities Building and Leadership Program
>
> - International Handbook for Chapters
>
> - Management Tools
>
> - Etc . You can read more on : http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/chapters/lead
>
> All those programs are ways of “indirect” financial support of ISOC to Chapters. Many will say it is not enough, but for me It is
> enough! Chapters should search for others sources of funding locally and International using the prestige and add-value of been
> part of ISOC. Chapters should think to create recurrent activities that can generate revenues and help them be independent
> financially and of course sustainable. I know Chapters are non-profit organization or group, but been non-profit do not means that
> we cannot generate revenues or sell our expertise (gained from ISOC and others Chapters) and services locally. For example, when we
> organize trainings, we can ask participants for small participation fees and this can help us overcome our administrative and
> running costs. But we can only do this in a sustainable way when we are registered as a legal entity in our respective country.
>
>
>
> Let come back to issue which brings this discussion live: Making ISOC Cambodia Chapter a legal entity in Cambodia.
>
> I know how It is difficult to establish a non-profit organization in many countries, especially in developing countries. When I
> started the “re-formation” process of ISOC Cameroon Chapter, I made that goal my N°1 priority and which the help (time and money)
> of others founding members, we achieved it. We had the choice at that time to legalize the Cameroon Chapter as a NGO or
> Association. The process to become an NGO was too complicated, so we choice to be registered as an Association (a sort of small
> NGO). This is very important because Chapters can only be respected locally and interact freely with government, private sector and
> other groups when they are registered as a legal entity by the local administrative authorities.
>
> Based on that experience, I suggest to our Cambodia Chapter colleagues to explore all alternatives of legal recognition in their
> country. Be registered as a NGO is not the only way to become a legal non-profit organization or entity, I hope this is true in
> Cambodia too.
>
>
>
> When the Chapter is registered as a legal entity (NGO, Association…) in its respective country, it can easily search or apply to
> local funding opportunities (government grants, big national corporates grants…). The formation an ISOC Chapter is a process and
> Chapter founding members are aware during the process that ISOC HQ will not be the only source of funding for the Chapter (that’s
> why there is a mention about “Chapter supporters” in the application form and means of funding the draft By-Laws). Let’s search for
> others sources of funding and thanks the ISOC HQ for all It is already offering us rather than fighting for something which will
> make us useless.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the long email.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Victor Ndonnang
>
>
>
>
>
> De : chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] De la part de Ted Mooney
> Envoyé : jeudi 26 septembre 2013 17:10
> À : ISOC Chapter Delegates
> Objet : Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter
>
>
>
> From my perspective these are all very good thoughts that have not only made me reconsider the way I speak to the community at
> large, but also how to move forward with a more productive dialog regarding administrative support for Chapters. There are quite
> rightfully, many different ideas how to proceed and as we all know, no single framework will be effective in all cases.
>
>
>
> The first full meeting of the Chapter Administrative Support Working Group (there have been conversations and emails pulling the
> group together and agreeing an agenda) will take place next week and there will be a report out to the chapter delegates regarding
> the outcome and next steps.
>
>
>
> Grigori asked that someone address why direct financial support was not immediately forthcoming. The reason is that at this point,
> there isn't a sufficient amount of money to assure fairness or even success, no fully developed plan to assure buy-in or understand
> the impact, no measurement or funds-accounting mechanisms. However, I fully expect progress on all these fronts by the end of the
> year and beyond.
>
>
>
> Let me also point out that a number of chapters have resolved these issues on their own from which many lessons can be learned.
> The autonomy of ISOC Chapters is a critical part of your overall effectiveness and ability to drive our mission locally. It comes
> with a high degree of self-determination and a degree of self-sufficiency which many of you have not only embraced, but insisted
> upon. I ask you to please put aside past resentments regarding the perception of ISOC as a "rich" organization when support of
> our global mission on so many fronts requires investment many times our capability. Senior leadership of the Internet Society
> supports constant vigilance and adjustment of our funding priorities to assure our communities are armed as best they can be to
> support the ISOC Global mission. These processes are neither quick nor simple. But your voices are heard and are having an
> impact, however glacial the speed of their implementation. In this light, I call upon the Cambodian Chapter once again, to
> reconsider it's decision to leave the Internet Society and work on a plan for the short and long term viability of our mission
> there.
>
>
>
> With great regards,
>
>
>
> Ted
>
> Ted Mooney
>
> Senior Director, Membership & Services
>
> The Internet Society
>
> 1775 Wiehle Avenue
>
> Reston, VA 20190 USA
>
> Office: +1 703-439-2774
>
> Cell: +1 301-980-6446
>
> eMail: mooney at isoc.org
>
>
>
> From: Shreedeep Rayamajhi <weaker41 at gmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:26 AM
> To: Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>
> Cc: ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter
>
>
>
> I meant to say the communication can differ from people and channel so it has be standardized and centralized accordingly, the
> confusion in between the can create problems
>
>
> Cheers to Life
> Shreedeep Rayamajhi
> 00977-9841374547(Nepal)
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal)
>
> 00977-9813900099
>
> +1(301)485-9395(US)
> [307188_273906535976793_1054301566_n.jpg]
>
> DISCLAIMER: This message is intended only for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that
> disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Shreedeep:
>
>
>
> Can you be so kind in explaining the meaning of the last sentence in your message? I can interpret it in many different ways.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> -ed
>
> President
>
> ISOC-Puerto Rico
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Shreedeep Rayamajhi <weaker41 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear all
>
> We all are proud to be part of the Internet society and to some extent it is our pride and prestige to say we are located through
> out the world. As said big powers come with bigger Responsibilities just like that we need to address the issue of Cambodian
> chapter by every possible means.It counts for every member that stand for change and with such situation ISOC can certainly help
> the chapter. Its not just about the rules and principle but on practical ground if there is a possibility from the ISOC
> headquarters then they should help because it makes a difference.
>
> ISOC and its role model of economic independence can be understood and the pros and cons of funding a chapter is the part of the
> ISOC board or whom it may be concern but in reality if there is a possibility for the Cambodian chapter to help then ISOC should by
> all means.
>
> I think the communication in between the chapters +chapter leaders+ISOC broad needs to be neutralized in every possible way.
>
>
> Cheers to Life
> Shreedeep Rayamajhi
> 00977-9841374547(Nepal)
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal)
>
> 00977-9813900099
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shreedeep_Rayamajhi_(activist)
>
> +1(301)485-9395(US)
> Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
>
> DISCLAIMER: This message is intended only for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that
> disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Eduard Tric <eduard.tric at isoc.ro> wrote:
>
> A few years ago , i had the opportunity to participate in a task force called "Isoc chapter of the future".
> One of the conclusions was that there has to be a balance between what HQ offer to the capters (direct financial support was barley
> mentioned , among other forms of support ) and what chapters should provide to HQ (some form of activity , or growth).
> If direct financial support is not an option, the "why" part should be explained in detail.
> In that case , indirect support should be enhanced (raise community grants budget and leadership training for chapter key persons )
> Regards,
> Ed
>
> ----- Mesaj original -----
> De la: "Grigori Saghyan" <gregor at arminco.com>
> Către: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Trimis: joi, 26 septembrie, 2013 3:07:04
> Subiect: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Dear All,
> from the formal point "chapter" is a part of one large structure. I
> think it is to have clearly defined relations between "Chapters" (or
> local ISOC structures) and whom? I use "ISOC Global" term, but may be
> "Management" or "HQ or "Board" is better? For each of proposed terms
> there is some uncertainty.
>
> After Cambodian declaration it looks, that there only one real way to
> draw attention to Chapter problems.
>
> Btw, why it is such strong negative reaction for direct financial
> support? And as we see, there is an expression " The issue of the lack
> of direct financial transfers is currently not among
> the solutions the Internet Society can offer".
>
> Here we see the author: it is the "Internet Society".
> Not the Board, not the staff, not the management, not ISOC Global,
> but the "Internet Society"
> Logically, I can understand, that as a Chapter, our Chapter was
> involved in some kind of discussion on that point, there was a voting
> procedure, and such decision was approved by majority? But we do not
> participated in such procedure.
> On the the other hand, if the Chapter is real "chapter" - a part of a
> large structure the "Internet Society" - it is not necessary to ask
> Chapter's opinion.
>
> Clear definition of terms is one of the strongest requirements
> everywhere, I think it is one of the most important points today for
> ISOC community (also undefined term).
>
>
>
> Grigori Saghyan
> ISOC.AM
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26.09.2013 0:19, Elver Loho wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I haven't kept up with this email list, but from what I can gather
> > the Cambodian Chapter wants to disassociate from ISOC due to lack
> > of direct financial support for the basic running and operation of
> > the Chapter.
> >
> > I do not speak for my Chapter here, but personally I
> > wholeheartedly support this gesture. If this happens, then maybe,
> > just maybe, ISOC senior staff will start taking the issue of
> > providing support for Chapters around the world seriously.
> >
> > Right now Chapters seem to exist more as a way for ISOC HQ to show
> > that they have support and members around the world. We're all
> > providing a sort of legitimacy for the people at the HQ. Do we get
> > something back for this? Sort of. I mean, maybe. To some degree.
> > Though here in Estonia very few people have heard of the Internet
> > Society while our own local language brand carries a lot of
> > weight. Your situation may be different.
> >
> > Meanwhile we're battling with basic organizational issues, because
> > we can't even afford to keep up basic maintenance. At times we're
> > even unable to reply to government's requests for comments on
> > pending legislation, because we all have regular jobs or businesses
> > to run. This has to end. If what it takes is for one or more
> > Chapters to secede from the union, then so be it. If the Cambodian
> > Chapter goes through with this, I'm willing to put the question of
> > secession up for debate in our own Chapter.
> >
> > I urge other Chapter leaders to consider the same.
> >
> > Best, Elver .ee
> >
> > elver.loho at gmail.com +372 5661 6933 skype: elver.loho
> >
> >
> > On 25 September 2013 22:56, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Cambodian colleagues
> >>
> >> I'm a board member in New York and respect your decision but urge
> >> you to keep working to resolve this. The board of ISOC is
> >> strongly committed to working with chapters and directed staff to
> >> improve things. If that's broken down here, as it seems, several
> >> board members are surely willing to help. They are dedicated,
> >> committed people who make a point fo responding to ISOC chapter
> >> members. I or a dozen others on this list can connect you if
> >> that makes things easier.
> >>
> >> They are all strong and independent thinkers, most with a no
> >> b______ attitude.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >> Thanks for addressing this; leaving it without response would
> >> have been painful. This is a crisis for the goverance model of
> >> ISOC that needs to be resolved at the highest level. As you saw
> >> from this list, a dozen other chapters think this crucial to
> >> solve.
> >>
> >> But "The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is
> >> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can offer"
> >> doesn't seem to the point. Is there anything in the ISOC charter
> >> that makes this impossible? If so, please point to it and people
> >> can bring it to the board.
> >>
> >> "Can" is the word you used. I'm guessing this actually is an
> >> administrative decision made by the senior staff, who can, if
> >> they choose, simply reverse the decision. Staff are constantly
> >> making financial decisions an order of magnitude greater. If
> >> staff feel they can't do this without board approval, that's easy
> >> to obtain if it's important to ISOC. As many of us know, most of
> >> the board members are very accessible and dedicated to solving
> >> ISOC problems if necessary.
> >>
> >> "Should" ISOC provide the seed funding here, necessary to get the
> >> chapter started on the path to independence is the real question.
> >> I'm sure there's a lot more here than the presumably modest sum
> >> to share some office space. Likely, a shared or cheap office
> >> space that fits the legal requirements can be obtained for less
> >> than the cost of sending one more talking head to IGF Bali.
> >> Nothing wrong with IGF, but a slightly smaller ISOC delegation
> >> isn't a fatal wound.
> >>
> >> I don't know enough to decide whether ISOC should do more here
> >> and I'm sure there are major issues that haven't been discussed.
> >>
> >> So let's draw in Lynn, Walda or whomever else actually has the
> >> power to make things happen and prevent a deep organizational
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> db
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Ted Mooney <mooney at isoc.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> To all Chapter Delegates
> >>>
> >>> ISOC Staff and, in particular, Membership and Services, are
> >>> saddened by the recent decision and communication from the
> >>> Cambodian Chapter regarding their desire to dissociate from the
> >>> Internet Society for administrative and other support concerns.
> >>> I believe, however, there has been an unfortunate
> >>> miscommunication. The Chapter Development and APAC staff have
> >>> reached out to the Cambodian Chapter on numerous occasions. As
> >>> many of you know, our Chapter Development team has worked with
> >>> other chapters to help address issues nearly identical to what
> >>> the Cambodian Chapter is experiencing. Our offer of
> >>> collaboration remains.
> >>>
> >>> The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is
> >>> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can
> >>> offer. There are, nevertheless many other avenues to address
> >>> the administrative support of the Chapter, which are both local
> >>> and long term. Indeed Staff are working with Chapter
> >>> volunteers and have convened a new Chapter Administrative
> >>> Support Working Group to address this issue broadly. We hope
> >>> the Cambodian Chapter will reassess their position and
> >>> re-engage with ISOC staff as soon as possible. Our Chapter
> >>> Development staff will reach out once again to the Cambodian
> >>> Chapter officers.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Ted Ted Mooney Senior Director, Membership & Services The
> >>> Internet Society 1775 Wiehle Avenue Reston, VA 20190 USA
> >>> Office: +1 703-439-2774 Cell: +1 301-980-6446 eMail:
> >>> mooney at isoc.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to
> >>> this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
> >>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud
> >> Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video:
> >> Making It Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> >> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> >> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> > _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> > Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> > list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >
>
>
> - --
> Grigori Saghyan
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> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
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> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
> --
>
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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