[Chapter-delegates] Nicaragua's internet is in trouble

Tue Nov 12 20:06:59 PST 2013

Michael & Folk

Michael asked about other nations demanding "local control of data." It's
becoming common. Below, NY Times on dispute between Korea and Google and
Deutsche Welle on DT plans to have a "national Internet". I could find
similar from India in a different context.

   ISOC would be really foolish to jump into this one. After Snowden, many
thoughtful and reasonable people want their government to protect them from
American surveillance. National laws can certainly interfere with the
smooth running of the Internet, which is unfortunate. The world is paying a
very heavy price for the pervasiveness of the surveillance state, and
hiccups in Internet efficiency may develop.

Of course some countries will use "security" as an excuse for harmful
protectionism. But remember protectionism is not always harmful; since Adam
Smith and David Ricardo, economists have supported protecting "infant
industries." A reflexive "free trade" position is simply bad economics;
especially when we are talking about developing countries, the particular
case needs to be examined.

   ISOC, as a U.S. based organization with strong ties to the U.S.
government, needs to be particularly thoughtful about positions that
undermine other nations security. In addition, Google and other U.S.
companies clearly are affected by restrictions on access to markets. The
U.S. government at WCIT took several positions that were clearly inspired
by the needs of U.S. companies, not a desire for "freedom." The U.S., like
most other nations, compromises our ideals in the mercantilist interest of
our ig companies.

   That's not ISOC's role, especially because we are compromised by taking
contributions from the same companies.

   Dave Burstein

   Google Jousts With Wired South Korea Over Quirky Internet Rules
By ERIC PFANNER<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/eric_pfanner/index.html>Published:
October 13, 2013

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SEOUL, South Korea — South Korea is one of the world’s most digitally
advanced countries. It has ubiquitous broadband, running at speeds that
many Americans can only envy. Its Internet is also one of the most quirky
in the world.
Enlarge This Image
Jean Chung for The New York Times

A bus stop in Seoul. Google Maps can provide directions only for public
transportation in Korea.
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A curfew restricts school-age children from playing online games at night;
adults wanting to do so need to provide their resident registration numb

Travelers who want to go from Gimpo International Airport to the Gangnam
neighborhood of Seoul cannot rely on Google Maps. Google Maps can provide
directions only for public transport, not for driving, to any place in
Korea. Anyone crazy enough to try the journey on bicycle or on foot,
directions for which Google Maps provides elsewhere, will be similarly
stymied.

The highly regulated Internet comes as a surprise to many people, Koreans
included, because South Korea is a strong democracy with a vibrant economy
seemingly ready for the digital information age. South Koreans were early
adopters of Internet games and smartphones. It has world-beating
electronics companies like Samsung and LG. But here the Internet is just
different.

South Korean security restrictions that were put in place after the Korean
War limit Google’s maps, the company says. The export of map data is
barred, ostensibly to prevent it from falling into the hands of South
Korea’s foe to the north, across the world’s most heavily fortified border.
Google and other foreign Internet companies say the rule also prevents them
from providing online mapping services, like navigation, that travelers
have come to rely on in much of the rest of the world.

The Korea Communications Standards Commission, a regulatory panel, blocks
material on the Web that it deems objectionable. This can include
pornography, the production of which is technically illegal in South Korea.

Foreign Internet companies say the country’s rules prevent them from
competing against domestic rivals because they cannot provide the same
services they do elsewhere. South Korea is one of the few major markets
where Google is not the leading search engine. A South Korean rival,
Naver,<http://www.naver.com/> has
the most users.
INTERNETDeutsche Telekom plans for a 'national internet'

Deutsche Telekom contemplates a 'national internet' in which data and
emails go only through domestic lines. Experts are skeptical about this
idea.

Deutsche Telekom reacted to the National Security Agency scandal with a new
slogan, "National Routing" intending to keep data, and protection thereof,
within the country. With this new proposal the biggest German
telecommunication company is trying to regain lost consumer confidence.
"The idea is, contrary to today's common practice, that data from a German
sender to a German recipient will not be sent through another country," said
Philipp Blank, Telekom's
spokesman<http://www.dw.de/deutsche-telekom-internet-data-made-in-germany-should-stay-in-germany/a-17165891>
.

This policy will encompass emails and other data traffic. Telekom wants to
avoid data going through allegedly bugged intersections in foreign
countries. Telekom suggests that the system will later be expanded to the
Schengen area.

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Michael Kende <kende at isoc.org> wrote:

>  Hello, to further this discussion and our understanding of the issues,
> does anyone have examples of other countries that are considering data
> localisation requirements such as this and the one that Brazil is
> discussing?  Are there any specifics available to help analyse what is
> being proposed?  Do you think they are likely to succeed? And last but not
> least, what are your views on the policy considerations and potential
> impact of the measures?
> Thanks in advance,
> Michael
>
>   From: Gary Wayne Kenward <garykenward at ieee.org>
> Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 5:12 PM
> To: Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com>
> Cc: Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Nicaragua's internet is in trouble
>
>   I do not know the full extent of the situation in Nicaragua. Simply
> from face value, I would suggest that a nation taking control over
> information flow for the purposes of protecting the privacy of their
> citizens is a positive move. And I would expect to see this practice become
> more common.
>
>  Clearly, such regulatory action is open for abuse. However, so is the
> unfettered flow of information outside of a nations borders.
>
>
>  It is my understanding that when the USA introduced the Patriot Act, the
> Canadian government issues a directive to all federal government
> organizations to ensure that all electronic data was transported and stored
> within our national borders.  I believe that the provincial organizations
> followed suit.
>
>  The rationale was simply to ensure protection of all private information
> managed by federal government organizations.
>
>  In my view, they did not go far enough. It is a frequently stated view
> that Canada's privacy regulations regarding electronic information are not
> strong enough. Commercial and consumer traffic are frequently routed
> through the US and many (but not all) application service providers use US
> based data warehousing. This should be stopped or at least mitigated.
>
>  Canadian's have a different view of privacy versus security from US
> citizens. While keeping electronic data within national borders does not
> provide 100% protection (nothing really can), it does goes a long way to
> ensure that privacy is protected by Canadian law (and what little
> International law applies).
>
>  Gary
>
>  On 2013.11.07, at 7:49 AM, Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com> wrote:
>
>  It looks like many countries are trying to do similar stuff, but are
> using different arguments to explain why.
> Alejandro, from what you say, it looks almost that the credit card
> companies (MasterCard, Visa) will stop offer their products in Nicaragua,
> as they would hardly agree to keep data bases there.
>
> v.
>
>
>  On 11/07/13 01:01, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
>
> Hi Elver,
>
> I just went through the text for the whole new Constitution of Nicaragua, prompted by your note from a few hours ago.
>
> It definitely does include (in article 92) provisions for databases hat must stay in the territory and spectrum that must stay in the state's control.
>
> It is not absolutely clear to me whether this is for all databases or only those belonging to the Army, or pertaining to national security, because of the article in which these provisions are stated.
>
> At any rate indirect information and opinions I heard as recently as two days ago from expert visitors to Nicaragua, things are indeed dire.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Facultad de Química UNAM
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
>
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>
> ________________________________________
> Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Elver Loho [elver.loho at gmail.com]
> Enviado el: miércoles, 06 de noviembre de 2013 14:04
> Hasta: Chapter Delegates
> Asunto: [Chapter-delegates] Nicaragua's internet is in trouble
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Just got pinged by friends in Nicaragua that their government is
> planning constitutional reforms to take control of the internet:http://www-ni.laprensa.com.ni/2013/11/06/ambito/168983-telcor-redes-sociales-hay
>
> If someone on this list is in the area, or familiar with the
> situation, please provide further information and, if it's serious,
> please beat some sense into these legislators. (Feel free to forward
> this email to relevant parties.)
>
> Should it really be as bad as the article makes it sound, it would
> make sense for the ISOC regional HQ to send their own delegation to
> meet the government.
>
> Best,
> Elver
> .ee
> elver.loho at gmail.com+372 5661 6933
> skype: elver.loho
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>
> --
>
> Best,
> Veni Markovskihttp://www.veni.comhttps://www.facebook.com/venimarkovskihttps://twitter.com/veni
>
>
> The opinions expressed above are those of the
> author, not of any organizations, associated
> with or related to him in any given way.
>
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