[Chapter-delegates] Trustees! not staff! Re: Announcement about the dissolution of ISOC-KH

Mon Nov 11 13:45:11 PST 2013

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Dear Christopher,
you wrote:
On 06.11.2013 23:52, CW Mail wrote:
> 
> *1.Regional Bureaus:*
> 
> The question is not internal ISOC communications. It is our
> external communications with other Internet communities,
> particularly governments and regulators.
Our external communications with government and regulator better to
organize using local ISOC Chapter. Any foreign organization, even if
the name of this organization is "Internet Society Regional Office"
will not have any serious influence on any government or regulator.
Just because it is foreign organization, second - it is a branch of
foreign organization.

> There has to be concentrated, coordinated and consensus based
> policy communication focussed on the relevant actors at each point
> in time.

> That will never be achieved through individual Chapters acting on
> their own through the Internet.

Of course, for this there is ISOC HQ and this mailing list,
conferences, personal meetings. I do not see here the role of Regional
Office.

> The Regional Bureaus are not doing that job at present, but they
> should, with the political oversight of the Chapters in their
> Region.

I have some doubts, that such job can be done by Regional Office...
About oversight - if ISOC Chapter is an independent entity with its
own ByLaws, no one  can "oversight" this Chapter, only its members,
not ISOC HQ nor ISOC Regional Office.
> 
> *2.Decentralised staff: *
> 
> (a) the published ISOC job description for the Regional Bureaus is 
> already sufficiently broad that it obviously cannot be done by only
> one or two people operating in large geographical areas.

Job description  - can we find there something exact? Or just common
word like  coordination, supervision, performance standards
measurement? Or there is a direct  requirement to work with local
governments or with the regulators directly? Or this Regional Office
has a special jpb - to develop ISOC policy for this or that specific
region?  I think it is impossible - ISOC ideas are common for whole
globe.

> (b) very few Chapters - that I am aware of - have the resources to
> act as 'local staff'. That is part of the parallel discussion going
> on about ISOC administrative support to Chapters.

Let me ask you about your information source - are there such
statistics or any investigation, that Chapters are week? But even if
you  if you are right, why ISOC needs such powerless Chapters? Only
for quantity?

> in any event, a relevant level of knowledge and experience is
> required. (c ) most global Internet policy issues have a
> significant national or regional dimension, either in terms of
> timing, or in terms of domestic conditions including legislation.

Of course,  each country has its own legislation. I have some doubts
that any Region (exclude EU) has more or less  similar legislation.

> Grigori: This response is expressly generic. In the European
> context one could be much more specific in terms of the EU
> institutions and regulators, in terms of the geographical scope and
> in terms of the domestic dimension of the policy issues.

Agree, EU is a unique  example. It is impossible find other such
example in the world.

> 
> Best regards
> 
> Christopher
With respect
Grigori Saghyan
ISOC.AM
> 
> 
> On 06 Nov 2013, at 14:42, Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com 
> <mailto:gregor at arminco.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Christopher,
> 
> could you please describe, why we need Regional Bureaus today, when
> we have all necessary tools for communications using the Internet?
> 
> And why  it is necessary to have decentralized staff? Each ISOC 
> Chapter is a natural representative of  the Internet  community
> and can act as a local staff.
> 
> With respect Grigori Saghyan ISOC.AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 06.11.2013 16:57, CW Mail wrote:
>>>> Dear Alan and colleagues:
>>>> 
>>>> I hesitate to intervene in this discussion because had my 
>>>> recommendations of three years ago been promptly implemented,
>>>> we would not be having this critical discussion today.
>>>> 
>>>> To be clear, I do not support the dissolution of the
>>>> Regional Bureaus. My position is that the staff should be
>>>> decentralised to the Regional Bureaus and that the Regional
>>>> Bureaus must be politically accountable to the Chapters in
>>>> their Region.
>>>> 
>>>> The second point is of course a pre-condition for the first.
>>>> 
>>>> Having been neither a Trustee nor a senior staff member, I
>>>> abstain from that argument as well. Clearly the Chapters have
>>>> been under-represented in the Board of Trustees for a
>>>> considerable period of time, and that might have contributed
>>>> to a certain lack of understanding, if not sensitivity, to
>>>> Chapter issues.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards to you all
>>>> 
>>>> Christopher Wilkinson.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 06 Nov 2013, at 12:37, Alan Levin <alan at isoc.org.za 
>>>> <mailto:alan at isoc.org.za>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Veni,
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 05 Nov 2013, at 8:49 PM, Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com 
>>>>> <mailto:veni at veni.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> You are right. The staffers are good people. I'd say - 
>>>>>> amazingly good people.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am so sorry as in the past I would always have agreed
>>>>> with this comment. Sadly, after spending more than a
>>>>> calendar day in various discussions with Ted Mooney in
>>>>> Durban a few months ago, I found him to have been dishonest
>>>>> with me. I would not state this in such a public forum
>>>>> unless I was entirely convinced on three bases, 1.
>>>>> regarding ISOC Gauteng, 2. regarding a visit to ISOC 
>>>>> projects in Gauteng that I sent him to, and 3. regarding a 
>>>>> commitment to observing netiquette.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have told Ted that cannot trust him and that I believe he
>>>>> is waging a war against ISOC-ZA yet he persists. Sadly he
>>>>> is in charge of ISOCs position on all of us :(
>>>>> 
>>>>> On the other hand I've had a few discussion with the
>>>>> Trustees and I believe that they are fully aware of the
>>>>> issues and are fully supportive of the Chapters needs. I
>>>>> expect that with the new CEO we will see dissolution of the
>>>>> 'bureaus' and additional global policy analysts that will
>>>>> be available to assist us with policy issues at national or
>>>>> regional levels.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sincerely
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ As an
>>>>> Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized
>>>>> with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>> https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ As an
>>>> Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized with
>>>> the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>> https://portal.isoc.org
>>>> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society 
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> 
> 

- -- 
Grigori Saghyan
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