[Chapter-delegates] Trustees! not staff! Re: Announcement about the dissolution of ISOC-KH
Dave Burstein
daveb at dslprime.com
Mon Nov 11 13:29:37 PST 2013
Apparently I was misinformed.
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:53 AM, Markus Kummer <kummer at isoc.org> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> It was brought to my attention that the email below, referring to "Lynn's
> and Markus' replacement" , implied that I was quitting ISOC and I have been
> asked to clarify my situation. Fact is that neither have I been asked to
> leave nor have I expressed an interest to leave.
>
> Best regards
> Markus
>
>
> On Nov 7, 2013, at 1:36 AM, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com> wrote:
>
> > Democracy is messy, especially as Jason notes when the people are 12,000
> miles away and don't communicate in other ways. Jason is right to call for
> more courtesy whenever possible and calling Ted Mooney "dishonest" was
> worth avoiding. My experience is we are all human and make lots of
> mistakes. Ted strikes me as someone who wants to overcome problems that
> develop and will work to solve whatever this is about.
> >
> > Ted is getting a lot of flack because he's the point man on a real
> problem that needs solving. Jason as a board member I hope will do what he
> can to improve things here. I became involved in ISOC more deeply a while
> back because I thought the issues coming at WCIT were profoundly troubling.
> I was really disappointed to discover that what should be a vibrant,
> "multi-stakeholder" group was being run from the top down. There's a clear
> message from the top that chapters are supposed to be "supportive of ISOC
> policy" which they set. Anyone who follows this list can provide a dozen
> examples. Of course, anyone who follows any passionate discussion on this
> or almost anything else can provide plenty of examples of anger boiling
> over like this.
> >
> > Which most of us shrug off and happily share a beer later on. Let's
> hope that Alan and Ted reach that point soon.
> >
> > And that Jason, as well as the rest of the board, exercise good
> judgment and help resolve the underlying problems, which are substantial.
> In particular, I think it's crucially important the replacements for Lynn
> and Markus Kummer have proven experience in working with a vibrant, open
> organization that attracts people of strong political views.
> >
> > I also think it crucial that Lyn and Markus' replacement have the
> experience to bridge the North-South divide. I was horrified to note that 8
> out of 8 people speaking at a recent ISOC presentation to members were from
> the U.S.-Europe access when a strong majority of Internet users and ISOC
> chapters are from the BRICs and the developing world. We don't need ethnic
> tests on our staffers but we certainly need more diverse backgrounds. Some
> of our presentations for WCIT were serious battles for freedom but others
> (terms of trade in Internet products, practical approached to rural
> development) were uninformed and seriously disrespectful of legitimate
> issues of less developed countries.
> >
> > We need leadership who understand issues from the "development" point
> of view as well as the "DC consensus."
> >
> > Dave Burstein
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:52 PM, CW Mail <mail at christopherwilkinson.eu>
> wrote:
> > Dear Grigori:
> >
> > Thankyou for these questions. they are very relevant.
> >
> > 1. Regional Bureaus:
> >
> > The question is not internal ISOC communications. It is our
> external communications with other Internet communities, particularly
> governments and regulators.
> > There has to be concentrated, coordinated and consensus based
> policy communication focussed on the relevant actors at each point in time.
> > That will never be achieved through individual Chapters acting on
> their own through the Internet.
> > The Regional Bureaus are not doing that job at present, but they
> should, with the political oversight of the Chapters in their Region.
> >
> > 2. Decentralised staff:
> >
> > (a) the published ISOC job description for the Regional
> Bureaus is already sufficiently broad that it obviously cannot be done by
> only one or two people operating in large geographical areas.
> > (b) very few Chapters - that I am aware of - have the
> resources to act as 'local staff'. That is part of the parallel discussion
> going on about ISOC administrative support to Chapters.
> > in any event, a relevant level of knowledge and experience
> is required.
> > (c ) most global Internet policy issues have a significant
> national or regional dimension, either in terms of timing, or in terms of
> domestic conditions including legislation.
> >
> > Grigori: This response is expressly generic. In the European
> context one could be much more specific in terms of the EU institutions and
> regulators, in terms of the geographical scope and in terms of the domestic
> dimension of the policy issues.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Christopher
> >
> >
> > On 06 Nov 2013, at 14:42, Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com> wrote:
> >
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear Christopher,
> >>
> >> could you please describe, why we need Regional Bureaus today, when we
> >> have all necessary tools for communications using the Internet?
> >>
> >> And why it is necessary to have decentralized staff? Each ISOC
> >> Chapter is a natural representative of the Internet community and
> >> can act as a local staff.
> >>
> >> With respect
> >> Grigori Saghyan
> >> ISOC.AM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 06.11.2013 16:57, CW Mail wrote:
> >>> Dear Alan and colleagues:
> >>>
> >>> I hesitate to intervene in this discussion because had my
> >>> recommendations of three years ago been promptly implemented, we
> >>> would not be having this critical discussion today.
> >>>
> >>> To be clear, I do not support the dissolution of the Regional
> >>> Bureaus. My position is that the staff should be decentralised to
> >>> the Regional Bureaus and that the Regional Bureaus must be
> >>> politically accountable to the Chapters in their Region.
> >>>
> >>> The second point is of course a pre-condition for the first.
> >>>
> >>> Having been neither a Trustee nor a senior staff member, I abstain
> >>> from that argument as well. Clearly the Chapters have been
> >>> under-represented in the Board of Trustees for a considerable
> >>> period of time, and that might have contributed to a certain lack
> >>> of understanding, if not sensitivity, to Chapter issues.
> >>>
> >>> Regards to you all
> >>>
> >>> Christopher Wilkinson.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 06 Nov 2013, at 12:37, Alan Levin <alan at isoc.org.za> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Veni,
> >>>>
> >>>> On 05 Nov 2013, at 8:49 PM, Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> You are right. The staffers are good people. I'd say -
> >>>>> amazingly good people.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am so sorry as in the past I would always have agreed with this
> >>>> comment. Sadly, after spending more than a calendar day in
> >>>> various discussions with Ted Mooney in Durban a few months ago, I
> >>>> found him to have been dishonest with me. I would not state this
> >>>> in such a public forum unless I was entirely convinced on three
> >>>> bases, 1. regarding ISOC Gauteng, 2. regarding a visit to ISOC
> >>>> projects in Gauteng that I sent him to, and 3. regarding a
> >>>> commitment to observing netiquette.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have told Ted that cannot trust him and that I believe he is
> >>>> waging a war against ISOC-ZA yet he persists. Sadly he is in
> >>>> charge of ISOCs position on all of us :(
> >>>>
> >>>> On the other hand I've had a few discussion with the Trustees and
> >>>> I believe that they are fully aware of the issues and are fully
> >>>> supportive of the Chapters needs. I expect that with the new CEO
> >>>> we will see dissolution of the 'bureaus' and additional global
> >>>> policy analysts that will be available to assist us with policy
> >>>> issues at national or regional levels.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sincerely
> >>>>
> >>>> Alan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> >>>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> >>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> >>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> >>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> - --
> >> Grigori Saghyan
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> >> _______________________________________________
> >> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> >> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> >> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud
> > Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video: Making It
> Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)
> > _______________________________________________
> > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
>
--
Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud
Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video: Making It
Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)
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