[Chapter-delegates] Trustees! not staff! Re: Announcement about the dissolution of ISOC-KH

Wed Nov 6 16:36:44 PST 2013

Democracy is messy, especially as Jason notes when the people are 12,000
miles away and don't communicate in other ways. Jason is right to call for
more courtesy whenever possible and calling Ted Mooney "dishonest" was
worth avoiding. My experience is we are all human and make lots of
mistakes. Ted strikes me as someone who wants to overcome problems that
develop and will work to solve whatever this is about.

    Ted is getting a lot of flack because he's the point man on a real
problem that needs solving. Jason as a board member I hope will do what he
can to improve things here. I became involved in ISOC more deeply a while
back because I thought the issues coming at WCIT were profoundly troubling.
I was really disappointed to discover that what should be a vibrant,
"multi-stakeholder" group was being run from the top down. There's a clear
message from the top that chapters are supposed to be "supportive of ISOC
policy" which they set. Anyone who follows this list can provide a dozen
examples. Of course, anyone who follows any passionate discussion on this
or almost anything else can provide plenty of examples of anger boiling
over like this.

   Which most of us shrug off and happily share a beer later on. Let's hope
that Alan and Ted reach that point soon.

   And that Jason, as well as the rest of the board, exercise good judgment
and help resolve the underlying problems, which are substantial. In
particular, I think it's crucially important the replacements for Lynn and
Markus Kummer have proven experience in working with a vibrant, open
organization that attracts people of strong political views.

   I also think it crucial that Lyn and Markus' replacement have the
experience to bridge the North-South divide. I was horrified to note that 8
out of 8 people speaking at a recent ISOC presentation to members were from
the U.S.-Europe access when a strong majority of Internet users and ISOC
chapters are from the BRICs and the developing world. We don't need ethnic
tests on our staffers but we certainly need more diverse backgrounds. Some
of our presentations for WCIT were serious battles for freedom but others
(terms of trade in Internet products, practical approached to rural
development) were uninformed and seriously disrespectful of legitimate
issues of less developed countries.

   We need leadership who understand issues from the "development" point of
view as well as the "DC consensus."

Dave Burstein

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:52 PM, CW Mail <mail at christopherwilkinson.eu>wrote:

> Dear Grigori:
>
> Thankyou for these questions. they are very relevant.
>
> *1. Regional Bureaus:*
>
> The question is not internal ISOC communications. It is our external
> communications with other Internet communities, particularly governments
> and regulators.
> There has to be concentrated, coordinated and consensus based policy
> communication focussed on the relevant actors at each point in time.
> That will never be achieved through individual Chapters acting on their
> own through the Internet.
> The Regional Bureaus are not doing that job at present, but they should,
> with the political oversight of the Chapters in their Region.
>
> *2. Decentralised staff: *
>
> (a) the published ISOC job description for the Regional Bureaus is
> already sufficiently broad that it obviously cannot be done by only one or
> two people operating in large geographical areas.
> (b) very few Chapters - that I am aware of - have the resources to act as
> 'local staff'. That is part of the parallel discussion going on about ISOC
> administrative support to Chapters.
>   in any event, a relevant level of knowledge and experience is required.
> (c ) most global Internet policy issues have a significant national or
> regional dimension, either in terms of timing, or in terms of domestic
> conditions including legislation.
> Grigori:  This response is expressly generic. In the European context one
> could be much more specific in terms of the EU institutions and regulators,
> in terms of the geographical scope and in terms of the domestic dimension
> of the policy issues.
>
> Best regards
>
> Christopher
>
>
> On 06 Nov 2013, at 14:42, Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com> wrote:
>
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>
>
> Dear Christopher,
>
> could you please describe, why we need Regional Bureaus today, when we
> have all necessary tools for communications using the Internet?
>
> And why  it is necessary to have decentralized staff? Each ISOC
> Chapter is a natural representative of  the Internet  community and
> can act as a local staff.
>
> With respect
> Grigori Saghyan
> ISOC.AM
>
>
>
>
> On 06.11.2013 16:57, CW Mail wrote:
>
> Dear Alan and colleagues:
>
> I hesitate to intervene in this discussion because had my
> recommendations of three years ago been promptly implemented, we
> would not be having this critical discussion today.
>
> To be clear, I do not support the dissolution of the Regional
> Bureaus. My position is that the staff should be decentralised to
> the Regional Bureaus and that the Regional Bureaus must be
> politically accountable to the Chapters in their Region.
>
> The second point is of course a pre-condition for the first.
>
> Having been neither a Trustee nor a senior staff member, I abstain
> from that argument as well. Clearly the Chapters have been
> under-represented in the Board of Trustees for a considerable
> period of time, and that might have contributed to a certain lack
> of understanding, if not sensitivity, to Chapter issues.
>
> Regards to you all
>
> Christopher Wilkinson.
>
>
>
>
> On 06 Nov 2013, at 12:37, Alan Levin <alan at isoc.org.za> wrote:
>
> Dear Veni,
>
> On 05 Nov 2013, at 8:49 PM, Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com>
> wrote:
>
> You are right. The staffers are good people. I'd say -
> amazingly good people.
>
>
> I am so sorry as in the past I would always have agreed with this
> comment. Sadly, after spending more than a calendar day in
> various discussions with Ted Mooney in Durban a few months ago, I
> found him to have been dishonest with me. I would not state this
> in such a public forum unless I was entirely convinced on three
> bases, 1. regarding ISOC Gauteng, 2. regarding a visit to ISOC
> projects in Gauteng that I sent him to, and 3. regarding a
> commitment to observing netiquette.
>
> I have told Ted that cannot trust him and that I believe he is
> waging a war against ISOC-ZA yet he persists. Sadly he is in
> charge of ISOCs position on all of us :(
>
> On the other hand I've had a few discussion with the Trustees and
> I believe that they are fully aware of the issues and are fully
> supportive of the Chapters needs. I expect that with the new CEO
> we will see dissolution of the 'bureaus' and additional global
> policy analysts that will be available to assist us with policy
> issues at national or regional levels.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> - --
> Grigori Saghyan
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