[Chapter-delegates] Trustees! not staff! Re: Announcement about the dissolution of ISOC-KH
Paul Brooks
paul.brooks at isoc-au.org.au
Wed Nov 6 17:18:37 PST 2013
+1 Dave
(from one chapter south of the global waistline)
On 07/11/2013 11:36, Dave Burstein wrote:
> Democracy is messy, especially as Jason notes when the people are 12,000 miles away
> and don't communicate in other ways. Jason is right to call for more courtesy
> whenever possible and calling Ted Mooney "dishonest" was worth avoiding. My
> experience is we are all human and make lots of mistakes. Ted strikes me as someone
> who wants to overcome problems that develop and will work to solve whatever this is
> about.
>
> Ted is getting a lot of flack because he's the point man on a real problem that
> needs solving. Jason as a board member I hope will do what he can to improve things
> here. I became involved in ISOC more deeply a while back because I thought the
> issues coming at WCIT were profoundly troubling. I was really disappointed to
> discover that what should be a vibrant, "multi-stakeholder" group was being run from
> the top down. There's a clear message from the top that chapters are supposed to be
> "supportive of ISOC policy" which they set. Anyone who follows this list can provide
> a dozen examples. Of course, anyone who follows any passionate discussion on this or
> almost anything else can provide plenty of examples of anger boiling over like this.
>
> Which most of us shrug off and happily share a beer later on. Let's hope that
> Alan and Ted reach that point soon.
>
> And that Jason, as well as the rest of the board, exercise good judgment and help
> resolve the underlying problems, which are substantial. In particular, I think it's
> crucially important the replacements for Lynn and Markus Kummer have proven
> experience in working with a vibrant, open organization that attracts people of
> strong political views.
>
> I also think it crucial that Lyn and Markus' replacement have the experience to
> bridge the North-South divide. I was horrified to note that 8 out of 8 people
> speaking at a recent ISOC presentation to members were from the U.S.-Europe access
> when a strong majority of Internet users and ISOC chapters are from the BRICs and
> the developing world. We don't need ethnic tests on our staffers but we certainly
> need more diverse backgrounds. Some of our presentations for WCIT were serious
> battles for freedom but others (terms of trade in Internet products, practical
> approached to rural development) were uninformed and seriously disrespectful of
> legitimate issues of less developed countries.
>
> We need leadership who understand issues from the "development" point of view as
> well as the "DC consensus."
>
> Dave Burstein
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:52 PM, CW Mail <mail at christopherwilkinson.eu
> <mailto:mail at christopherwilkinson.eu>> wrote:
>
> Dear Grigori:
>
> Thankyou for these questions. they are very relevant.
>
> *1.Regional Bureaus:*
>
> The question is not internal ISOC communications. It is our external
> communications with other Internet communities, particularly governments and
> regulators.
> There has to be concentrated, coordinated and consensus based policy
> communication focussed on the relevant actors at each point in time.
> That will never be achieved through individual Chapters acting on their own
> through the Internet.
> The Regional Bureaus are not doing that job at present, but they should, with
> the political oversight of the Chapters in their Region.
>
> *2.Decentralised staff: *
>
> (a) the published ISOC job description for the Regional Bureaus is already
> sufficiently broad that it obviously cannot be done by only one or two people
> operating in large geographical areas.
> (b) very few Chapters - that I am aware of - have the resources to act as 'local
> staff'. That is part of the parallel discussion going on about ISOC
> administrative support to Chapters.
> in any event, a relevant level of knowledge and experience is required.
> (c ) most global Internet policy issues have a significant national or regional
> dimension, either in terms of timing, or in terms of domestic conditions
> including legislation.
> Grigori: This response is expressly generic. In the European context one could
> be much more specific in terms of the EU institutions and regulators, in terms
> of the geographical scope and in terms of the domestic dimension of the policy
> issues.
>
> Best regards
>
> Christopher
>
>
> On 06 Nov 2013, at 14:42, Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com
> <mailto:gregor at arminco.com>> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>
>> Dear Christopher,
>>
>> could you please describe, why we need Regional Bureaus today, when we
>> have all necessary tools for communications using the Internet?
>>
>> And why it is necessary to have decentralized staff? Each ISOC
>> Chapter is a natural representative of the Internet community and
>> can act as a local staff.
>>
>> With respect
>> Grigori Saghyan
>> ISOC.AM <http://ISOC.AM>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 06.11.2013 16:57, CW Mail wrote:
>>> Dear Alan and colleagues:
>>>
>>> I hesitate to intervene in this discussion because had my
>>> recommendations of three years ago been promptly implemented, we
>>> would not be having this critical discussion today.
>>>
>>> To be clear, I do not support the dissolution of the Regional
>>> Bureaus. My position is that the staff should be decentralised to
>>> the Regional Bureaus and that the Regional Bureaus must be
>>> politically accountable to the Chapters in their Region.
>>>
>>> The second point is of course a pre-condition for the first.
>>>
>>> Having been neither a Trustee nor a senior staff member, I abstain
>>> from that argument as well. Clearly the Chapters have been
>>> under-represented in the Board of Trustees for a considerable
>>> period of time, and that might have contributed to a certain lack
>>> of understanding, if not sensitivity, to Chapter issues.
>>>
>>> Regards to you all
>>>
>>> Christopher Wilkinson.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06 Nov 2013, at 12:37, Alan Levin <alan at isoc.org.za
>>> <mailto:alan at isoc.org.za>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Veni,
>>>>
>>>> On 05 Nov 2013, at 8:49 PM, Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com <mailto:veni at veni.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> You are right. The staffers are good people. I'd say -
>>>>> amazingly good people.
>>>>
>>>> I am so sorry as in the past I would always have agreed with this
>>>> comment. Sadly, after spending more than a calendar day in
>>>> various discussions with Ted Mooney in Durban a few months ago, I
>>>> found him to have been dishonest with me. I would not state this
>>>> in such a public forum unless I was entirely convinced on three
>>>> bases, 1. regarding ISOC Gauteng, 2. regarding a visit to ISOC
>>>> projects in Gauteng that I sent him to, and 3. regarding a
>>>> commitment to observing netiquette.
>>>>
>>>> I have told Ted that cannot trust him and that I believe he is
>>>> waging a war against ISOC-ZA yet he persists. Sadly he is in
>>>> charge of ISOCs position on all of us :(
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand I've had a few discussion with the Trustees and
>>>> I believe that they are fully aware of the issues and are fully
>>>> supportive of the Chapters needs. I expect that with the new CEO
>>>> we will see dissolution of the 'bureaus' and additional global
>>>> policy analysts that will be available to assist us with policy
>>>> issues at national or regional levels.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
>>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
>>>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
>>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> - --
>> Grigori Saghyan
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>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud
> Author with Jennie Bourne DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video: Making It Great, Getting
> It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):https://portal.isoc.org
--
Paul Brooks
Board member
ISOC-AU - Internet Society of Australia
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