[Chapter-delegates] ISOC's policies - sensitive email

[President ISOC-KH]

+1

Norbert


On 03/24/2012 07:43 PM, Veni Markovski wrote:
> And, also important: the conversation is not about you, Larry or any 
> of the past, current or future trustees. It is not an "ad hominem" 
> attack, and I'm surprised you are making parallels to individuals, 
> serving on the board. The conversation is about the principles of 
> governing a big non-profit, which can make a big difference in the 
> Internet world. The world today is different from the world of the 
> past, and therefore Isoc should change to reflect the different 
> environment and the new tasks confronting it. But let's try not to 
> engage in discussions on individuals and trustees. The main topic, the 
> important one, is the policy and the structure.
>
> On Saturday, March 24, 2012, Eric Burger <eburger at standardstrack.com 
> <mailto:eburger at standardstrack.com>> wrote:
> > Are there any examples of Trustees that happen to be elected by 
> Organizations representing Organizations?
> > Let's take an extreme example: Organizations elected Jonathan 
> Zittrain. From Harvard. Harvard is not an Organization member. 
> Jonathan often focuses a critical eye on those who make money from the 
> Internet. Like Organization Members. The Organizations are not exactly 
> electing a puppet that will do their bidding. Likewise, Organizations 
> elected Larry Lessig. From Harvard. Harvard is not an Organization 
> member. Larry's raison d'être is the role of society with respect to 
> technology. Someone who is now working on reforming the American 
> electorial system to root out commercial interests in our election 
> process. These are not exactly people who will be imposing a "heavy 
> influence" of companies on ISOC.
> > How about an even more extreme example: Chapters often elect people 
> that happen to be employed by Organization Members. Does that mean the 
> Trustee "represents" civil society or their employer?
> > For that matter, what am I? I was appointed by the IAB, am active in 
> ISOC-DC, and am about to be (again) from an Organizational Member. Is 
> my employer an evil commercial interest that wants to use the Internet 
> for nefarious purposes, to wall the garden to extract monopoly rents, 
> or to silence opposition to my products? The last time I looked, the 
> product of Georgetown University is educated and fiercely independent 
> women and men. Do I represent the IETF? The Chapters? My employer? I 
> would offer the answer is everyone.
> > PLEASE read the election procedures and the bylaws. While each 
> Trustee may be selected by one the three pillars of ISOC: individual 
> users (Chapters), commercial (Organizations), and technology (IETF), 
> they represent all aspects of the Internet. They positively do not and 
> should not represent the community that elected them. We are not a 
> membership organization. If we were a membershijp organziation, it 
> would be appropriate to have Representatives who represent members. 
> However, we are a cause based organization. Thus, a Trustee must 
> represent the cause, and only the cause.
> > We certainly value the perspective the Trustee brings to the Board, 
> and thus we hope to get lots of perspectives from using a diverse 
> electoral base. That is why we have Trustees selected by the three 
> pillars of ISOC.
> > --
> > - Eric
> >
> > On Mar 21, 2012, at 10:53 PM, Veni Markovski wrote:
> >
> > Fred, and all - see comments below.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Fred Baker <fred at cisco.com 
> <mailto:fred at cisco.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mar 21, 2012, at 9:23 PM, Veni Markovski wrote:
> >> > 8. ISOC does not represent civil society - for an independent 
> observer it is an organization, which is heavily influence by its 
> organizational members (companies), not by individual members or 
> chapters. Good and not so good.
> >> > This point needs clarification - it's good that ISOC does not 
> represent civil society - there are many, who claim that, but ISOC is 
> unique as the home of the IETF. But it is not good that ISOC would not 
> encourage and empower its chapters to participate at the IGF/ITU 
> meetings, as they are indeed the ones, representing the civil society 
> in their respected countries.
> >>
> >> Veni:
> >>
> >> I do find myself wondering to what extent you think ISOC is driven 
> by its organizational members.
> >
> > To a very large extent.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> At my company, I'm among the small set of people that are involved 
> in and care about ISOC.
> >
> > That's understandable, but it's also something to worry about, if 
> you think from a certain point of view.
> >
> >>
> >> Sally and others ask us questions and give us reports, but the 
> organizational members don't sit down with ISOC to give it its priorities.
> >>
> >> What specific influence do you think the organizational members 
> have on ISOC?
> >
> > The organizational members do not need to sit down with ISOC to give 
> its priorities - as you point below, they do it through the Board, 
> which consists of their representatives. Just as an example - when was 
> the last time the chair of the Board was someone, elected by the 
> chapters or the members? I don't envy this, I actually think this is 
> what makes ISOC to be considered widely as representing the technical 
> community. I remember many governments talking about ISOC in the 
> context of the IETF, W3C, but I can't remember one talking about ISOC 
> as representing netizens, or civil society. That is not a reason for 
> any personal feelings, like envy. It's a reason for the Board to sit 
> down and think, "Why is that?", "Is it true?", "What can we do to 
> change it?". That, of course, if the Board believes that this is a 
> correct vision of ISOC. And if it thinks it is not, then what steps 
> would it take to make sure everyone else knows it?
> > So, to respond to your question more directly - I don't envy 
> anything. I don't think the organizational members pay the right 
> attention to ISOC, otherwise they would have seen that there's certain 
> value in having ISOC represent the technical community, and the 
> chapters represent the civil society, the users. But if they, as you 
> say, have only a small set of people, who care and are interested in 
> ISOC, then it is really sad. And that makes the chapters even more 
> important for ISOC, it seems, because they are the ones, who care and 
> are interested in ISOC in big numbers.
> >
> > best,
> > veni
> >
> >>
> >> BTW, I'm not asking about the board structure. Yes, I know you have 
> long wanted the chapters to have as many seats on the board as the 
> organizational members, but in this conversation, I'm not on that 
> topic - and neither are you. Parallel to your question about the role 
> and influence of the chapters, I'm asking about the organizational 
> members themselves, the advisory council, etc. What, specifically, do 
> you envy?
> >>
> >> Fred
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Best,
> Veni
>
> == Sent from my phone, so any spelling mistakes are caused by the 
> touchscreen keyboard. That's a nice excuse, isn't it;-)
>
>
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