[Chapter-delegates] ooXML
James
james at musicforhumans.com
Thu Sep 6 19:50:03 PDT 2007
Thanks, Mike!
Group: Let's do something verifiable.
I understand those who say, "It should take care of itself. Let's wait
for the vote result, next Spring, and see what we need to do, from
there." However, I do not agree with that "lassaiz faire" profile.
Let's see a full characterization of the ISO (and maybe even the ECMA)
voting patterns, and get the Big Picture. The fact that there is any
question at all about this ratification indicates that there is some
obscurity or a loophole in the structure, and we need the complete
dataset to make an intelligent decision, as an Organization.
If there ARE improprieties in the voting record, let's attempt to
address them. This Standard should NOT be approved!
Is there nothing we can do as a Group to stem the Microsoft tide? I know
it costs money, in most regions.
Is it even appropriate for members of our community to make every effort
to keep OOXML from becoming a serious element of the "open" language
catalog?
We all have the basic numbers regarding the latest vote on this subject,
by now. Is there a consensus among us that we should make a coordinated
effort to halt the progress of Microsoft's effort to standardize this
syntax, in order to keep the community "clean", or are we willing to
accept that this parlimentary end-around could change the course of the
Internet language "stream", and acknowledge the reality that when/if
this MS effort is successful, that we are then obliged to play by their
"rules", or obvious lack of those "rules"?
I've been escorted around the Redmond Campus ... and I can say with
confidence in my opinion that this is indicative of what we have to look
forward to. I still must ask, "Do we really (REALLY?) want OOXML as a
Standard for the future of document sharing?"
James Butler
Internet Society - Los Angeles Chapter
Chairman of the Board
jbutler at isoc-la.org
Mike Todd wrote:
> Right on James!!!
>
> Mike Todd
> President, Mike Todd Associates - www.MikeTodd.com
> Supporting the Digital Coast
>
> President, Internet Society Los Angeles Chapter - www.ISOC-LA.org
> mtodd at isoc-la.org
>
> Founder, Digital Divide Task Force, www.ddtf.org (currently under
> significant updates)
> miketodd at ddtf.org
>
> Western Research Application Center, Viterbi School of Engineering,
> University of Southern California
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> Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology Law
> Pepperdine University School of Law
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> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Butler"
> <james at musicforhumans.com>
> To: <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 4:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ooXML
>
>
>> I'd like to suggest that we try to bulk up our presence in any group
>> that has influence with ISO in order to keep the votes on
>> standardization as balanced as possible. In other words, if 14
>> Microsoft partners sign up in Belgium in the week before the next
>> vote (in February, I think?), then we should try to get at least 12
>> non-aligned professionals to join as well. Just to keep the votes
>> more equitable. This may be a short-term defense against a short-term
>> offense, and may provide breathing room to rework the ISO process
>> after we stop the OOXML fast track.
>>
>> Not to stoke the anti-OOXML fire, but rather to provide a relatively
>> scientific analysis, I'd like to refer interested parties to this
>> article by Stephanie Rodriguez:
>>
>> http://ooxmlisdefectivebydesign.blogspot.com
>>
>> This article discusses several challenges faced by application
>> developers who will need to interact with OOXML to provide services
>> for corporate and governmental environments, and to simply continue
>> using customized programming they have developed over the years to
>> help their organizations be more efficient. My reading of it confirms
>> for me that not only is OOXML not ready for inclusion as an "open"
>> standard, but that it is fundamentally flawed.
>>
>> The article also provides what seems to be a brief yet balanced
>> comparison between the existing ODF standard and OOXML, in those
>> regards.
>>
>> James Butler
>> Internet Society - Los Angeles Chapter
>> Chairman of the Board
>> jbutler at isoc-la.org
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>>
>> On 9/5/07 at 10:27 PM Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> and, believe it or not, non-European chapters can also use what you
>>> learn
>>> and do!
>>>
>>> Thanks, Christian and all, for opening this valuable thread.
>>>
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>
>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>> . . .
>>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>> Director General de Servicios de Computo Academico
>>> UNAM, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
>>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>> Tel. (+52-55) 5622-8541, 5622-8542 Fax 5622-8540
>>> http://www.dgsca.unam.mx
>>> *
>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, www.isoc.org
>>> Participa en ICANN, www.icann.org
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>> . .
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 5 Sep 2007, Christian de Larrinaga wrote:
>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 18:12:24 +0100
>>>> From: Christian de Larrinaga <cdel at firsthand.net>
>>>> To: "borka at e5.ijs.si" <borka at e5.ijs.si>
>>>> Cc: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org, patrick at vande-walle.eu,
>>>> Brian Carpenter <brc at zurich.ibm.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ooXML
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What ICTSB can and should do is to consider the views of its
>>>> participants that are akin to the substance of its work -- open
>>>> standards in a european context. If those views are not actionable
>>>> under the current ICTSB scope which I suspect is largely the case
>>>> then the ICTSB has the duty to report its work and findings to the EU
>>>> Commission and can recommend further action at the EU and national
>>>> level, and can request guidance from the EU. This is something we
>>>> could influence.
>>>>
>>>> It might not be a complete solution but if those involved in ooxml
>>>> can identify some high level issues that need addressing then these
>>>> can be put forward in a European context. Now is a good time to set
>>>> out the bullet points and substantiated points.
>>>>
>>>> I gave a few examples in my response to Geir. I think we should stick
>>>> to technical issues and not get into an intra-organisational rant
>>>> with ECMA or ISO or anybody else. We can all do better than we are
>>>> doing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5 Sep 2007, at 16:10, borka at e5.ijs.si wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a short information about the mission
>>>>> (very briefly) of ICTSB:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is initiative of the 3 ESO: CEN, CENELEC and ETSI with
>>>>> 3 main objectives:
>>>>>
>>>>> -to listen to requirements for standards and specifications
>>>>> in the area of ICT
>>>>>
>>>>> -stemming from requirements and proposals from
>>>>> ICTSB members the board considers what standards
>>>>> need to be created (within the three ESO)
>>>>>
>>>>> -agreed work created as a project and allocated
>>>>> to one or more organization (ESO).
>>>>>
>>>>> So, ICTSB has coordinating role and other
>>>>> members e.g. ISOC European Chapters are there
>>>>> just for coordination and information the
>>>>> standardization efforts not to be duplicated.
>>>>>
>>>>> ICTSB is not a body to discuss any of the
>>>>> ISO or ECMA
>>>>> activities on the international scheme.
>>>>>
>>>>> Examples of ICTSB initiated work is
>>>>> Assistive technology group (DATSCG),
>>>>> Intelligent Transport system (ITSSG),
>>>>> SmartHouse Standards (SHSSG), Network&
>>>>> Information Security (NISSG) and Electronic
>>>>> Signature (EESSI).
>>>>>
>>>>> With regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Borka Jerman-Blazic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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