[Chapter-delegates] Welcome again...

Fri Apr 21 14:18:37 PDT 2006

Erkki,

thanks for making this strong, clear statement. Globalization means a lot 
more than putting a Cisco router in every country. You and Veni have 
contributed today to making ISOC a continuing learning experience for all.

Yours,

Alx

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . .  .  .  .  .  .
      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Director General de Servicios de Computo Academico
UNAM, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
Tel. (+52-55) 5622-8541, 5622-8542 Fax 5622-8540
http://www.dgsca.unam.mx
*
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, www.isoc.org
  Participa en ICANN, www.icann.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Erkki I. Kolehmainen wrote:

> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:56:59 +0300
> From: Erkki I. Kolehmainen <eik at iki.fi>
> To: 'Jeffrey Sherman' <Jeff at warever.com>, chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Welcome again...
> 
> Please be serious. Sadly I find that you have no comprehension of either
> where Macedonia is (by your own statement) or of the delicate situation in
> the use of the name Macedonia (which has been the cause of major
> international disputes). Since you appear to believe that you can have a
> fully qualified opinion without being aware of or even wanting to know any
> facts, I don't know if any further statements of facts would help.
> (Incidentally, there is no such spelling as Deutchland for Germany.)
>
> Erkki I. Kolehmainen
> Tilkankatu 12 A 3, FI-00300 Helsinki, Finland
> Puh. (09) 4368 2643, 0400 825 943; Tel. +358 9 4368 2643, +358 400 825 943
>
> -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
> Lähettäjä: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
> [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] Puolesta Jeffrey Sherman
> Lähetetty: 21. huhtikuuta 2006 15:01
> Vastaanottaja: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Aihe: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Welcome again...
>
>
> Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is over a country name - and
> especially what country name is used in an ISOC chapter name.
>
> After all, what a country is called depends on a number of factors,
> including the context and the language.
>
> I mean, if someone asks what country I'm from, I don't usually say, "The
> United States of America"... I usually just say "US."
>
> I've seen:
>
> United States
> United States of America
> US
> USA
> US of A
>
> and in French
>
> Etats Unis
>
> Germany is "Germany" in English but "Deutchland" in German.  Are either
> WRONG?  Someone named "Steven" in English is generally referred to as
> "Etienne" in French (sorry, I have no idea how to put in accents).
>
> The chapter of which I'm a member is known as "ISOC Los Angeles" (or "ISOC
> Los Angeles Chapter" - I forget which technically).  Los Angeles is
> obviously not a country nor is it a state; it is simply a city.  So should
> our chapter be known as "ISOC City of Los Angeles"???  Or perhaps "ISOC City
> of Los Angeles, County of Los Angeles, State of California, United States of
> America"???
>
> Note that ISOC and ISOC chapters are membership organizations that are
> separate from governments.  Perhaps in some parts of the world, the local
> governments (be it cities, states, or countries) might provide some
> sponsorship, but ISOC has never been about the interaction of governments
> nor is ISOC considered as representatives of any government (though part of
> ISOC's mission might be to INFLUENCE government action).
>
> The name of a chapter is generally chosen to be indicative of the region
> where the chapter is based and where most members live and/or work.
>
> Though honestly, most of us in the "US" haven't a clue where Macedonia is
> (sadly, most probably couldn't even pick out where France is - or even where
> most of our own states are - on a map), I think REGARDLESS of who considers
> whatever the country's official name to be, naming the chapter "ISOC
> Macedonia" lets the rest of the world know the general location of their
> members.
>
> Jeffrey Sherman
> Warever Computing, Inc.
> 530 S. Barrington Ave., Ste. 303
> Los Angeles, CA 90049
> Toll Free: 800-WAREVER
> Local: 310-476-0335
> FAX: 310-472-0699
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
> [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] On Behalf Of Narelle
> Clark
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:19 PM
> To: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Welcome again...
>
>
>> From: borka at e5.ijs.si
>> Sent: Thursday, 20 April 2006 7:13 PM
>>
>> Would you please pass your discussion to a place
>> that is more appropriate  and ready to listen
>> to your political standpoints. I doubt that
>> ISOC list is the appropriate place.
>
> I do consider it appropriate for Chapters to be aware of international
> disputes, and of the ways that the various chapters diplomatically handle
> issues regarding:
> - country names
> - human rights
> - trade disputes
> Etc (the common ones off the top of my head)
>
> Indeed our ability to discuss relevant issues in a rational, consultative
> and basically humane way is essential to our function.
>
> We frequently have meetings between chapters and chapter reprentatives,
> governments, business and other dignitaries, and surely it is essential that
> we do hear of, for example, the appropriate means of address for these
> representatives?
>
> Please accept also, that I do agree that the debate on many
> political/diplomatic/intergovernment issues will be inappropriate to this
> list, and that we should set aside personal sensitivities wherever possible
> in the interest of constructive discussion over flame wars.
>
> I didn't read our Greek (ha ha nearly typed 'Geek') colleague as trying to
> push a political point at all, perhaps I'm just naïve. I read it as quite
> conciliatory, actually.
>
>> My comment was clarifying the situation
>> as initiated and stated   by yourself  with a
>> real fact that U.S government is
>> recognizing Republic of Macedonia
>> under their constitutional name
>> and nothing else.
>
> Personally, I would have thought the EU's name for a European region  took
> precendence over the US' designation any time... [not recalling right now
> what the EU calls it]
>
> And while I'm at it, surely the choice of name for a chapter reflects the
> culture of its people and is not necessarily tied to that of the nation
> within it resides?
>
> I am more concerned that the size of corporations means that the culture
> within corporations is now [sadly] dominant over many traditional social
> groupings (ie nations). Nations are getting smaller, and corporations
> larger. That we don't have chapters from some of these larger "cultural
> groupings" is perhaps an oversight...
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Narelle
> VP ISOC-AU (Australia)
>
>
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