[ih] This Review is for Everyone

[vinton cerf]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2026 at 3:26 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> On 3/12/26 09:40, Dave Crocker via Internet-history wrote:
> > On 3/12/2026 9:28 AM, Andrew Sullivan via Internet-history wrote:
> >> Like it or not, all the legal existence of the IETF is subordinate to
> >> the Internet Society.
> >
> >
> > Ahh.  So the IETF did not exist before ISOC.  And if ISOC disappeared,
> > so would the IETF.
> >
> > Good to know.
> >
> > d/
> >
> Not what I remember.....
>
> In early 1983, I was a member of the ICCB - the precursor to the IAB.
>   The ICCB was formed by Vint several years earlier, to serve as an
> advisory board to Vint at ARPA, setting priorities and plans, and then
> making them happen.  The ICCB was composed of individuals from the
> various organizations related to the Internet, e.g., Jon Postel, Dave
> Mills, Jim Mathis, Dave Clark, Bob Braden, Ed Cain, Ray McFarland, and
> myself, all invited by Vint to be members.  Hope I didn't miss
> anyone....   Bob Kahn called it "Vint's Cabinet".   After each meeting
> we would all go back to our respective organizations and do what we
> could to focus on the plans and priorities.
>
> I recall one ICCB meeting, sometime around early 1983, when Vint
> announced he was leaving ARPA to go to MCI.  ARPA's Internet projects
> would subsequently be led by Barry Leiner.  In the ICCB discussions a
> plan emerged to organize the various projects on two tracks as part of
> the handoff.  The "research" efforts would be organized as the IRTF
> (Internet Research Task Force), led by Dave Clark.  The "engineering"
> efforts would be organized as the IETF (Internet Engineering Task
> Force), led by Phil Gross.
>

Jack - Internet Activities Board had a bunch of working groups and IETF was
one of them. GADS was run by Dave Mills. IETF, run by Phill Gross, grew
larger than all the others. It was around 1990 that the various research
group were combined into IRTF, run by Dave Clark and IETF continued.

Subsequently Barry made some more changes, such as evolving the ICCB
> into the IAB, where each member would be the lead of some subgroup of
> the IETF or IRTF.

I don't think this parse is correct, Jack. IRTF came much later (see above)

>  Coincidentally, in July 1983 BBN did a major
> reorganization which split apart its own "research" and "operations"
> projects into separate divisions (and buildings).  I ended up on the
> "operations" side and lost track of the research activities.
>
> ISOC happened much later IIRC, trigged by some legal issues that arose,
> as the Internet became noticed by commercial and non-governmental
> interests, and the government focus shifted to use of COTS (Commercial
> Off The Shelf) products rather than expensive custom-built technical
> systems.
>
No it arose because NSF stopped funding the IETF Secretariat.

>
> Prior to that, the Internet had largely been a project focused on
> military needs, with a "pipeline" driving technology from research to
> operations.  The most prominent example of full progress through that
> pipeline was the ARPANET, which evolved into the DDN as the
> comprehensive data communications system for all military needs.  But
> there were other projects proceeding down the pipeline, such as SATNET,
> which evolved into MATNET as a US Navy prototype, and Packet Radio,
> which evolved into prototype testing in Army exercises.   I don't know
> if either of those technologies advanced further down the pipeline.
>
> Lots of actions helped propel projects down that pipeline.   I don't
> know for sure, but I always thought that the government members of the
> ICCB (Vint from Arpa and Ed and Ray from DoD) played a role in getting
> some of the non-technical actions to occur.  One example is the change
> in procurement regulations so that all the big government contractors
> were required to have TCP implemented in their deliverables.  Another
> was the creation by NBS (now NIST) of a program to certify that TCP had
> been implemented correctly, thus providing a means for all those
> contractors to contractually "prove" that they had actually implemented
> TCP.
>
> I don't know much about the history of ISOC and the IETF.  But I've
> always wondered how and why things changed between 1983 and now.
>
> In 1983 the Internet was an orchestrated project focused on meeting
> military communications requirements.  The government(s) controlled the
> direction and deployment through funding and regulations.
>
> Today, the Internet is a global project with fuzzy requirements to meet
> all sorts of business and human needs, and seems driven mostly by market
> forces.
>
> The early IETF was an organization of engineers focused on making the
> technology work to meet the requirements.  The IETF has evolved into a
> standards body, which puts technical solutions "on the shelf" and
> assumes someone who needs them will adopt and deploy as they see fit,
> but there seems to be no way to verify that a technology from the shelf
> is actually in place.
>
> How did that evolution happen...?
>
> /Jack Haverty
>
>
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