[ih] "The Great Debate"

[Greg Skinner]

On Apr 27, 2026, at 11:35 AM, Dave Crocker via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> On 4/26/2026 5:26 PM, Carl Malamud via Internet-history wrote:
>> In regards to Marshall and the OSI question, he gave a memorable speech at
>> an IETF plenary about how he had implemented OSI and he considered it to be
>> road kill in motion. He got a standing ovation from Jon Postel and others.
> 
> 
> Assuming we are thinking of the same event, this was Marshall's first time at an IETF and his presence and his presentation were carefully arranged.
> 
> Marshall was working for me, at the time, and had just published his wonderful tome, The Open Book, about OSI.
> 
> It included some discussion of standards processes, including reference to the IETF.  I'm not finding the relevant text that he made about standards processes but it included a summary assessment that these meetings were marked by "many fine lunches and dinners".
> 
> He later reported that the OSI folk who read the book pretty much nodded in agreement with his characterization of the standards work.
> 
> However many fine IETF folk took vigorous exception.  So there was some community anger with Marshall.
> 
> His appearance at the Hawaii IETF was intended to mend the fence.  His presentation was stellar in form and content and was thoroughly successful.
> 
> A bit of icing happened when I walked by a small group discussing what turned out to be final plans for the meeting t-shirt.  I injected the suggestion that at the bottom of the shirt's graphic, they should add "Many fine lunches and dinner" and they did.  And at the Plenary, they made a formal presentation of a shirt to Marshall.
> 
> d/
> 
> -- 
> Dave Crocker
> 
> dhc at dcrocker.net
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> 
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> 

I found the “many fine lunches and dinners” text on page 585 of the copy of The Open Book that is available for borrowing from The Internet Archive <https://archive.org/details/openbookpractica00rose>.

“Consider who actually gets sent to standards meetings.  When a technology enters the standards process, vendors send their best and brightest to safeguard proprietary interests.  Once the course is set, the Doers are called back to the office where they can perform more productive tasks for their employers.  To finish off the process, the vendors then send persons they can afford to have out of the office. the professional standards Goers.  The Goers have likely never implemented anything in their professional careers (if they have, it was so long ago as to be unworthy of mention. e.g. when vacuum tubes were the rule).  There is a propensity among the Goers not even to use computers, the very technology they are working to enhance.  A Goer attends meetings to deal with weighty political issues, travel, and have many fine lunches and dinners.”

Speaking of HEMS, there is some discussion of it, SGMP, and SNMP later in the chapter.

--gregbo