[ih] "The Great Debate"

[John Day]

Thanks for the correction, Sue Hares was participating on the Network Layer work.

As for Marshall, he passed the OSI clueless test. The insightful implementor saw that the upper 3 layers could be implemented as a single entity and had been defined to be implemented that way. Standards are not implementation design documents and never have been. I also remember Marshall claiming that OSI was creating transport protocols out of whole cloth. When in fact, the provenance of TP4 predates TCP.

Marshall knew very little about what was going on in OSI.

Take care
John

> On Apr 26, 2026, at 09:24, Ole Jacobsen <olejacobsen at me.com> wrote:
> 
> Two corrections:
> 
> 1. There were several Interop Great Debates, and yes, the one about OSI was indeed NOT
>    between Marshall and Paul, but rather between Marshall and Sue Hares who WAS an OSI
>    implementor. Mockapetris may have been on Marshall's "team" or he might even have been
>    arguing against Marshall in a role-play debate, see below.
> 
> 2. Marshall Rose very much did know what was going on as he was also heavily involved in
>    (trying to) implement OSI. Google ISODE, the ISO Development Environment. He also wrote
>    an entire book on the topic.
> 
> Ole
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2026, at 06:15, John Day via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> 
>> That must have been an interesting debate considering neither one of them was participating in OSI or had any idea what was going on. But then why spoil a good story with facts.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2026, at 09:01, Carl Malamud via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi -
>>> 
>>> There was an Interop "Great Debate" between Marshall T. Rose and Paul
>>> Mockapetris in 1992 or 1993 on the subject of "OSI v. TCP/IP." I bleieve
>>> Interop used to sell audio tapes of these events. Might anybody have one?
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Carl Malamud
>>> 
>>> p.s. My first post on this list. Hello world, etc, etc.
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> 
> Ole J. Jacobsen
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