[ih] As Flag Day approaches at CMU
John Day
jeanjour at comcast.net
Sat Sep 6 13:03:27 PDT 2025
As I have related before, this was when FermiLab was being built. There was a lot of transfers from CERN to Rutherford and then Rutherford to Illinois to mag tape and driven to Argonne National Lab. Yes, I know they weren’t supposed be doing that, but . . . ;-)
This was before there were Interstates to Chicago. If you look at a map, Champaign-Urbana is almost due south of Argonne on the south side of Chicago. The physics dept had a name for their route (now lost), that they could drive back country roads to Argonne and make much better time than using the highways. (The Midwest states were surveyed into one mile squares called sections and the country roads tend to follow the section lines. Yes, the whole thing is pretty much a grid. The whole area is very flat, all corn and soybean fields and at night one could go quite fast, if one knew the road and they did.)
Take care,
John0
Before college, I remember doing 60+ mph on roads like that and I was cautious.
> On Sep 6, 2025, at 15:18, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
> After John Day told me he thinks Rutherford Appleton Labs was on the ARPANET, I did a bit of research and found some interesting papers that indeed confirm this.
>
> UCL ARPANET Project Report for Year 1977. The London UCL node was set-up as a gateway from which access to EPSS was possible to the IBM at RL. The paper does not explain whether this was transparent to the user.
> https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA135020.pdf
>
> Monitoring and access control of the London node of ARPANET. provides more info on how the system is monitored;
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1499799.1499882
>
> And then a fuller report for 1976.
> https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/5793285/National-Security-Archive-Peter-T-Kirstein.pdf
>
> Later (late eighties), when TCP-IP was implemented, the links to Internet were the same, but the UCL-CS.ARPA turned to uk.ac.ucl.cs.nss as a gateway and as a user of that gateway from JANET, the access was not transparent to the user. You had to log into the machine (there was first a vax and then a sun) and from there, select where you wanted to go. Lots and lots of choices of gateways... but that's another story.
>
> Happy reading!
>
> Olivier
>
> On 06/09/2025 12:04, Vint Cerf wrote:
>> i agree with that conclusion, Olivier
>> v
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2025 at 5:38 AM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>> That was the Rutherford Appleton Lab IBM-B, uk.ac.rl.ib aka
>> UKACRL.BITNET / EARN.UKACRL
>>
>> But I do not think that this was ever connected to the Arpanet
>> using NCP.
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>>
>> On 06/09/2025 11:12, vinton cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>> > I don't think so but weren't they connected to a major IBM
>> facility by way
>> > of JANET?
>> > v
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 6, 2025 at 3:48 AM Eberhard W Lisse via
>> Internet-history <
>> > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Didn't UCL use IBM in 73?
>> >>
>> >> el
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> On Sep 6, 2025 at 10:34 +0200, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via
>> >> Internet-history<internet-history at elists.isoc.org>, wrote:
>> >>> Fascinating.
>> >>> I notice there's not mention of IBM VM/CMS which was the
>> mainstay of
>> >>> EARN/BITNET.
>> >>>
>> >>> Is it because there were no such computers on the Arpanet?
>> >>> Kindest regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Olivier
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 06/09/2025 04:33, Barbara Denny via Internet-history wrote:
>> >>>> Oops. Somehow a . got inserted in the url.
>> >>>> This one should work.
>> >>>> https://self-issued.info/Smiley/Arpanet_Protocol_Thread.html
>> >>>> barbara
>> >>>> On Friday, September 5, 2025 at 08:10:41 PM PDT, Greg Skinner via
>> >> Internet-history<internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> >>>> forwarded for Barbara
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>> >>>>>> From: Barbara Denny<b_a_denny at yahoo.com>
>> >>>>>> To: Internet-history<internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 5, 2025 at 07:49:12 PM PDT
>> >>>>>> Subject: As Flag Day approaches at CMU
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Some of you might be interested in this link.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://self-issued.info/S.miley/Arpanet_Protocol_Thread.html
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It covers cmu messages as flag day approaches. They were
>> >> recovered when Jeff Baird was trying to find Scott Fahlman's
>> smiley :-)
>> >> bboard post.
>> >>>>>> The messages include when the ARPAnet temporarily shut
>> off NCP
>> >> twice before flag day. Vint, was one of those times you ?????
>> I think I
>> >> remember you mentioned doing this but I wouldn't be surprised
>> if I am wrong.
>> >>>>>> barbara
>> >>> --
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>> Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
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>> until further notice
>>
>>
>>
>
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