[ih] bufferbloat and modern congestion control (was 4004)a

[John Day]

Yes, there are lots of other ICMP messages. Ping, destination not available, etc. etc.

I still need to go through that Reconstitution Protocol, but from what I have read, someone didn’t understand something. Either it has nothing to do with network partitions (one can’t tell if it is partition or not until it is over, maybe those hosts were all down), if that wasn’t it, then it is just internet layer routing (BGP, inter-domain) instead of network layer routing (IS-IS/OSPF, intra-domain).

> On Oct 5, 2024, at 13:30, Barbara Denny via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  Yes there are more ICMP messages. Redirect popped into my head after my initial message about the Reconstitution Protocol gateway and Source Quench. It was like oops maybe I a remembered wrong. I haven't had a chance to check out the RP document yet. :-(
> Doesn't ping use icmp request and reply? I have been wondering if a dislike for ping started this we should just drop ICMP messages.
> barbara
> 
>    On Saturday, October 5, 2024 at 09:50:38 AM PDT, Vint Cerf via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:  
> 
> isn't there more to ICMP than source quench? Seems wrong to ignore all ICMP
> messages.
> 
> v
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 12:04 PM Greg Skinner via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 9:02 AM, Greg Skinner via Internet-history <
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Forwarded for Barbara
>>> 
>>> ====
>>> 
>>> Having trouble emailing again so i did some trimming on the original
>> message....
>>> 
>>> Putting my packet radio hat back on, a source quench message could help
>> disambiguate whether loss in the network is due to congestion or something
>> else (like in wireless, loss due to harsh environments, jamming,
>> mobility).  I also think it is not obvious what you should do when you
>> receive a source quench, but to me trying to understand this is just part
>> of trying to see if we can make things work better.  How about what you
>> could do when you don't receive a source quench but have experienced loss?
>>> 
>>> How is network coding coming along these days?
>>> 
>>> barbara
>> 
>> Any serious attempts to reinstitute ICMP source quench would have to go
>> through the IETF RFC process again because it’s been deprecated for some
>> time. [1]  Also, many sites block ICMP outright (even though they’ve been
>> warned not to do this). [2]
>> 
>> --gregbo
>> 
>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6633/
>> [2]
>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/icmp-dilemma-why-blocking-makes-you-networking-noob-ronald-bartels-ikvnf
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> 
> 
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