[ih] How TCP and the Internet "won" outside of the US?

[Brian E Carpenter]

For the report advising RARE to support TCP/IP see https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/RARE-TCP-IP-report.txt

Regards
    Brian Carpenter

On 25-Jul-24 10:34, Craig Partridge wrote:
> Agreed.  One anecdote - NORDUNET, which connected the Scandinavian research institutions.  They basically said (after much careful politicking) "we'll support what works [DECNET, NJE/EARN, TCP/IP] until OSI is ready" and had a multiprotocol, but mostly DECNET and TCP/IP network running and connected to NSFNET by late 1988.  Further, EUNET shifted to a TCP/IP (vs. UUCP) platform and connected to NORDUNET in early 1989.  NORDUNET spoke of providing a multi-protocol "NORDUNET plug" to their customers.
> 
> So there was this operational network, covering much of "northern Europe" (Iceland through to Finland, plus EUNET in Amsterdam and of course the UK, which had a substantial Internet presence) that just worked and was ostensibly protocol independent* [just whatever worked]. NORDUNET folks showed up at EU events and discussed their success and its impact, and that put pressure on universities in other parts of Europe.
> 
> By the way, the NORDUNET folks were helped substantially by folks like Larry Landweber (who advocated for international connections) and Steve Wolff and Steve Goldstein at NSF who made connections happen for NORDUNET.
> 
> Craig (who was friends with the NORDUNET folks and worked down the hall from many of them during a sabbatical in Sweden in 1991)
> 
> *I say ostensibly because, behind the scenes, many NORDUNET members were part of the RIPE project, (the IP in RIPE standing for IP), which was set up to create a European IP network in response to the EU's dysfunctional RARE program to get an OSI internet working.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 3:02 PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
> 
>     The techies knew it 5 years before the management and pols.
> 
>     Regards
>          Brian Carpenter
> 
>     On 25-Jul-24 08:42, Miles Fidelman via Internet-history wrote:
>      > As I understand it, it was the European Interop show.  All the OSI folks
>      > were promising "real soon now." Meanwhile, all the TCP/IP stuff was on
>      > display, up and running in the shownet, and available for sales.  So
>      > much for OSI.
>      >
>      > Miles Fidelman
>      >
>      >
>      > Jack Haverty via Internet-history wrote:
>      >> On 7/23/24 10:16, Gergely Buday via Internet-history wrote:
>      >>> Russia does not like the open Internet as they did not like Radio Free
>      >>> Europe.
>      >>>
>      >>> - Gergely
>      >>
>      >> I've always been curious about the adoption of the TCP-based Internet
>      >> as it spread outside the US.
>      >>
>      >> Inside the US, the Internet, and TCP, was characterized as "an
>      >> Experiment".   It might provide research insights, but the "real" next
>      >> generation system was being aggressively developed by big
>      >> corporations, perhaps to evolve into some kind of OSI standards-based
>      >> data communications infrastructure for the world - much as the
>      >> telephone, telegraph, postal, and other such older global
>      >> communications infrastructures had evolved.
>      >>
>      >> The perception of the Internet as just "an experiment" made it of
>      >> little relevance to the competitors, both corporations and standards
>      >> bodies, that were battling to define the actual next generation. Thus,
>      >> as just an Experiment,  the Internet got little attention from
>      >> corporate or political interests.   It grew on its own and likely
>      >> surprised a lot of people when it exploded and dominated, especially
>      >> through the 1990s after the Web appeared and provided content and
>      >> services interesting to the general public.
>      >>
>      >> I've always assumed that the Internet grew outside the US much as it
>      >> had grown inside.   But is that true?
>      >>
>      >> So my question is --- How was the Internet received by the political
>      >> and commercial interests in other countries?   Was it viewed as a
>      >> threat, or ignored as irrelevant?  In the US, IIRC a lot of big
>      >> companies were blindsided by the sudden (to them) emergence of the
>      >> Internet and TCP.
>      >>
>      >> But elsewhere?  For a country that "does not like the open Internet",
>      >> when did they realize that, and what did they do about it?
>      >>
>      >> Any recollections, pointers to literature, etc.?
>      >>
>      >> Jack Haverty
>      >>
>      >>
>      >
>      >
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