[ih] Politics behind the Internet

[Barbara Denny]

 Barry Leiner was back as assistant director at NASA Ames (RIACS) in 1985. 
I think you have a spelling error. I believe you were thinking of Stephen Wolff.
barbara
    On Monday, July 22, 2024 at 08:39:03 AM PDT, Bob Purvy via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:  
 
 > most of us know Licklider, Taylor, Kahn, Cerf, Wolfe - the folks at DOE &
NASA, not so much.

My point exactly. The DOE & NASA folks could have smothered it all in
bureaucratic BS, but they didn't.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 8:25 AM Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at meetinghouse.net>
wrote:

> Bob Purvy wrote:
>
> > The program
> managers involved did something very unlike government program managers
> - they connected their networks instead of building their own fiefdoms
> (and they let their users design and build the various networks).
>
> ... and this is why, on the Internet Old Farts on Facebook, I gave a
> shoutout to the admins who did this. Everyone knows the names of the people
> on this list, and they should, but those anonymous managers in the
> government COULD have done the safe thing and followed normal bureaucratic
> protocols, but did not.
>
> Well, I think most of us know Licklider, Taylor, Kahn, Cerf, Wolfe - the
> folks at DOE & NASA, not so much.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Miles
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 7:10 AM Miles Fidelman via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> Craig Partridge via Internet-history wrote:
>> > On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 7:59 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>> > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> IIRC, there was little talk of "spreading" either politically or
>> >> economically.  Simply put, there was no relevant audience reachable
>> >> through the networks.  All users were internal, working on or for
>> >> government projects.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > I broadly agree with Jack but will disagree in one element - it wasn't
>> all
>> > inward focused on ARPA funded folks.  By 1980, computer science
>> programs in
>> > the United States noticed that departments that had ARPANET access were
>> > experiencing greater research success, in part because it was easier to
>> > collaborate with other researchers.  This led to the notion of providing
>> > email and (limited) TCP/IP access to the Internet via CSNET, which was
>> set
>> > up as a joint DARPA-NSF program in 1981.  Broadly, that worked -- by
>> 1986,
>> > over 150 universities and research labs (such as HP Labs) were on
>> CSNET, to
>> > which you have to add the many universities directly on ARPANET.
>> > Essentially, any top 100 and most top 200 research universities in the
>> US
>> > were on ARPANET or CSNET.
>> >
>> > Thus when NSF was looking for a way to supercharge computing and
>> research
>> > in STEM, with supercomputers and network access, CSNET showed how that
>> > could work.
>> >
>> The magic of the Internet, is that it grew by demand-pull, from the
>> beginning.  The ARPANET was created to reduce comms costs for
>> researchers - who were basically told to spend their communications
>> budgets on ARPANET connectivity - forcing universities to start building
>> campus networks.  Then non-ARPA-funded researchers saw the value their
>> colleagues were getting from connectivity - and demanded that NSF, and
>> DOE, and NASA, and ... build networks for them - and the program
>> managers involved did something very unlike government program managers
>> - they connected their networks instead of building their own fiefdoms
>> (and they let their users design and build the various networks).
>> Government contractors discovered that they needed to be plugged in, and
>> found ways to get connectivity. Graduating students needed connectivity
>> - if only to email with potential employers.
>>
>> Barry Shein set up the World.  I started reselling TELENET services.
>> NEARNET was built, largely with user funding - hence not subject to
>> "government only" traffic restrictions (Prospect Hill allowed a
>> microwave dish on their roof, in return for a connection to their campus
>> network).
>>
>> And it all just happened.
>>
>> And then the marketeers stepped in, and started rebuilding a world of
>> walled gardens, designed to capture markets, instead of fostering
>> communication & collaboration.  And now we find ourselves in today's
>> mess - where connectivity & interoperability are no longer the core
>> values & virtues of the net.
>>
>> Sigh...
>>
>> Miles Fidelman
>>
>> --
>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>>
>> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
>> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
>> In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
>> nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown
>>
>> --
>> Internet-history mailing list
>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>
>
>
> --
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>
> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
> In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
> nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown
>
>
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