[ih] Really old list archives

[vinton cerf]

Postel and Clark were certainly on the ICCB and Clark was chair.
I handed off the title Internet Architect to Dave when I left ARPA in late
1982. Postel was his deputy.



On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 12:38 PM Greg Skinner via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

>
> On Jan 24, 2024, at 12:49 PM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >
> > I spelunked through some of my old notebooks (paper being the only known
> archival storage even now).   I found my notes from the first ICCB meeting,
> where Vint explained what the group would do and listed a bunch of problems
> that needed work.   In addition to architectural issues (like what does a
> host have to do, how will types of service be handled, etc.) there was also
> a focus on the "January 1983" Internet, and how to get rid of NCP and
> replace it with TCP throughout the Arpanet.
> >
> > I'm going to go through more of the notes and try to reconstruct some
> history of the ICCB, why it was so secretive, what it did, and how it
> evolved as Vint decided to leave ARPA.   I'll post that to this list.
>  There's a lot of acronyms in my notes that need to be explained, once I
> remember what they mean (anyone know what NAAP was?)
> >
> > Meanwhile...
> >
> > The ICCB was formed and had its first meeting on September 21, 1981 held
> at University College London just prior to the quarterly meeting of the
> "Internet Project" which typically had its fall meeting in Europe.  I've
> uploaded to Google Drive the first page of my notes.  It should be (if I
> got it right...) accessible to all at:
> >
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C5Q3b8vK_90l2rQvgieI58l6UKfM3CX8/view?usp=sharing
> >
> > That page starts with the pragmatics of the new ICCB group, e.g., meet
> 4x a year.  Then it lists "Problems" on the newly-formed ICCB's to-do
> list.  These fell into two broad categories: 1) architectural issues
> needing research and 2) short-term pragmatic requirements such as the
> upcoming NCP->TCP transition and making the Internet a reliable operational
> service.
> >
> > As far as I remember, there wasn't any "ICCB" mailing list or archive.
> We all just kept our own address list using our mail apps.  The group was
> very small - perhaps 10 people or so.  I haven't yet found any "attendance
> list" but I'll keep looking.  I do remember some of the members that I'm
> sure of - Vint, Jon Postel, Dave Clark, and myself.  Others that I *think*
> were on the ICCB at the time were Bob Braden, Dave Mills, Jim Mathis, Ed
> Cain, and Ray McFarland.
> >
> > To avoid confusion now... there was another group formed at the same
> time called the "ICB" - International Cooperation Board.  Its membership
> included some of the ICCB members plus members from outside the US, e.g.,
> John Laws (RSRE) and Peter Kirstein (UCL) and perhaps also Paal Spilling
> (NDRE/NTARE).   I don't remember much about the ICB; I wasn't on it.   I
> think Peter Kirstein was the Chair.
> >
> > The ICCB continued meeting a day before each Internet quarterly meeting,
> with a changing (and growing) list of problems to be worked on.  At the
> September 1982 meeting held at DFVLR outside Munich, Vint announced he was
> leaving ARPA to join MCI.
> >
> > More spelunking to do.... I'll post more when I decipher my ancient
> hieroglyphics.
> >
> > Jack Haverty
>
> Hmmm …
>
> The link I posted a few days ago to the email sent by KLH (Ken
> Harrenstien) to namedroppers was an initial recipient list, including an
> entry for iccb at bbn-unix, and a comment.  See below:
>
> Namedroppers:
> *<NAMSER>NAMEDROPPERS.MAIL,
> KLH at SRI-NIC,
> ROODE at SRI-NIC,
> MILLER at SRI-NIC,
> DYER at SRI-NIC,
> JOSE at SRI-NIC,
> FEINLER at SRI-NIC,
> CHERNIKOFF at SRI-TSC,
> ZSU at SRI-TSC,
> !I believe ICCB includes Clark and Postel and some others!
> iccb at bbn-unix,
> mockapetris at isif,
> kirton at isif,
> cak at purdue,
> mo at lbl-csam,
> eric at berkeley,
> Taft at PARC-MAXC,
> dpk at brl-bmd,
> G.UCBCMSA=SPGGGM at Berkeley,
> steve%UCL-CS at USC-ISID,
> /usr/haverty/journals/namedroppers*@bbnq
>
> Even if iccb at bbn-unix wasn’t a more structured list (like some of others
> of that time period such as the tcp-ip list with wider distributions,
> digests, etc.), it could have been an alias, which means it could have
> appeared in email headers as an addressee.  So I googled for iccb at bbn-unix,
> and a Slashdot thread from 1994 popped up about a Today Show “What’s the
> Internet” segment.  [1] [2] John Nagle contributed to that thread with some
> email he sent in 1983 about a TOPS-20 TCP bug to several addresses,
> including iccb at bbn-unix.arpa.
>
> I hope old lists from that time period (iccb, etc.) can be found, to see
> what people discussed.  I’m particularly interested in any exchanges John
> Nagle might have had with others (such as Dave Mills) on those lists about
> Internet congestion.
>
> —gregbo
>
> [1]
> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/02/01/1825243/whats-the-internet-on-1994s-today-show
> [2] https://youtu.be/eAV2Gjkhztg
>
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