[ih] Who starts with standards? (was Re: IETF relevance)

[Dave Crocker]

On 8/30/2023 10:34 AM, Andrew Sullivan via Internet-history wrote:
> why would anyone start with a standard and try to work outwards from 
> there?  If you don't at least have a prototype or a scratch proposal, 
> you will spend the first 8 years arguing about the size of the problem 
> and the next 8 regretting that you didn't ship any products.

While I agree that the current IETF is not the place to start from 
scratch, it often worked well in that mode. I think that considering why 
-- in particular what the benefits of starting there were -- can be 
instructive.

 1. Diverse community, sharing the need
 2. Experienced, motivated engineers and operators, able to make the
    spec practical and useful, and motivated to do so.
 3. Established structures and processes for managing such efforts.
 4. ... I'll stop at 3.

The problem now is that 2 often does not reach critical mass and 3 is 
often much too hands-off.

On that latter point, we had a similar problem in the early 90s when the 
Internet scaled to mass-market.  Big influx of folk with no experience 
in these activities.  The IETF stressed inclusive participation, so 
chairs tended to let everyone drone on forever.

I started the original Sunday Working Group Chairs Training specifically 
to try to deal with this.  Officially it was touted as an introduction 
to structure and process.

But actually my goal was to get chairs to understand that they had two 
tasks, not just one.  Yes, everyone had to be heard, but the group also 
had to make forward progress.  And the skills for achieving that were, 
in my view, the real benefit of the training.  I indulge myself by 
thinking that I saw some improvement after that.

But the part that can't be managed yet is essential and often missing 
these days is #2.

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker at mastodon.social