[ih] IETF relevance (was Memories of Flag Day?)

[Steve Crocker]

Well...

The original suite of protocols for the Arpanet -- NCP, Telnet, FTP, et al
-- were developed by the Network Working Group (NWG).  The NWG evolved over
the years into the IETF.  The formal creation of the IETF was roughly
mid-1980s.  The process of formally declaring a protocol a
proposed/draft/(full) standard evolved over the years.  Depending on how
precise you want to be about the existence of the IETF and the
formalization of protocols, I think you can make the case either way.  From
my perspective, I would say the original suite of protocols did indeed
originate in the (predecessor of) the IETF.

Steve

On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 12:48 PM Miles Fidelman via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> Traditionally, protocols have never "originated" with the IETF - they
> become standardized, and maybe standards through the RFC process, under
> the IETF aegis.  Right back to the original DoD Protocol Suite (did the
> IETF even exist when the DDN Protocol Handbook was first printed?).
>
> Miles
>
> Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history wrote:
> > On 29-Aug-23 05:52, Miles Fidelman via Internet-history wrote:
> >> Dave Crocker via Internet-history wrote:
> >>> On 8/24/2023 4:07 PM, John Klensin via Internet-history wrote:
> >>>> Probably a larger fraction of applications work has come to the
> >>>> IETF already half-developed and in search of refinement and
> >>>> validation by
> >>>> the community
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure there are examples, but I can't think of an application
> >>> protocol that was originated in the IETF over, say, the last 25 years,
> >>> that has seen widespread success.
> >>>
> >>> d/
> >>>
> >> Seems to me that HTTP remains under the IETF umbrella.
> >
> > But it did *not* originate in the IETF. It actually originated about
> > 20 metres horizontally and 3 metres vertically from my office at CERN,
> > more than a year before TimBL presented it at IETF 23 (I was wrong a few
> > days ago to assert that IETF 26 was Tim's first attendance). The WWW BOF
> > at IETF 26 was more than 2 years after HTTP was first deployed, to my
> > personal knowledge.
> >
> >> Is it not the
> >> RFC process, and IANA, that actually matter, in the scheme of things?
> >
> > In the case of HTTP, it was running code that long preceded both rough
> > consensus and an RFC. I think this is completely normal and still the
> > best method. Second best is code developed in parallel with the spec.
> > Third best is OSI.
> >
> >     Brian
> >
>
>
> --
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra
>
> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
> In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
> nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown
>
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