[ih] 40 years ago net.motss was newgroup'd

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Michael Thomas via Internet-history wrote in
 <b1ad048c-d24d-6ac3-42ad-522c0142954a at gmail.com>:
 |On 8/8/23 5:33 PM, Steffen Nurpmeso via Internet-history wrote:
 |> Michael Thomas via Internet-history wrote in
 |>   <2b956796-e606-c2ba-e934-deaf29c24a1c at gmail.com>:
 |>|On 8/8/23 1:43 PM, John Levine wrote:
 |>|> It appears that Michael Thomas via Internet-history <enervatron at gmail.c\
 |>|> o\
 |>|> m> said:
 |>|>> into soc.motss was the internet's first gay newsgroup. It was \
 |>|>> created by
 |>|>> Steve Dyer late of BBN. It was a purposefully cryptic name to \
 |>|>> fly under
 |>|>> the radar.
 |>|> In the 1980s I lived in Harvard Square around the corner from Steve
 |>|> and his partner whose name I don't remember but who was, if such a
 |>|> thing is possible, even nicer than he was. Everyone knew they were
 |>|> gay which, fortunately in that part of Cambridge, was not a big deal.
 |>|>
 |>|I was never quite clear what Steve did at BBN. Maybe somebody here
 |>|remembers?
 |>|
 |>|FWIW: my domain name is a result of Steve's spdcc.com. I needed to
 |>|create LLC in a hurry and this is what popped into my mind.
 |>|
 |>|But one other point is that it's funny how gay politics intersected the
 |>|nascent internet. I don't have proof of it, but my suspicion is that a
 |>|lot of changes especially in Silicon Valley but elsewhere as well with
 |>|companies and HR policies were very facilitated by the internet. It's
 |>|not like you would set up phone trees to get people to lobby HR, after
 |>|all. The net really facilitated that and probably in a big way.
 |>
 |> I do have _no_ idea, but from my German-centred point of view,
 |> i see (now letting aside the Bible with Moses and his personal
 |> opinion of "it is an atrocity", but the law that there may be no
 |> "male temple prostitutes" (iirc), and, 3500 years later, people
 |> like Benjamin Britten, etc etc ETC) a clear path from Rosa von
 |> Praunheim's "Nicht der Homosexuelle ist pervers, sondern die
 |> Situation, in der er lebt" from 1971 ([1]), over the coming out of
 |> Freddy Mercury and his famour parties in Munich, Germany, as well
 |> as, of course, Rock Hudson's death (hm), now i skipped the big big
 |> Bronski Beat "Age of Consent" as well as, of course, "My Beautiful
 |> Laundrette", and, to end this, "Silverlake Life" [2].
 |> Whoever saw the latter (here it could be seen around midnight in
 |> german TV of public law; and i must say, in my memories they shone
 |> even brighter, i was a bit distressed to see the film again over
 |> twenty years later), you know.  Madonnas "SEX" was present in
 |> Germany through Udo Kier (censored in Japan i read now ;), and now
 |> i lost track.  So let's Divine, and "Shake it up".
 |> All of those had nothing to do with the internet, however, so i am
 |> off-topic.  But were omnipresent in Germany.
 |
 |Freddie Mercury didn't really come out in the classic sense of the word. 
 |He did what I call "coming out by not coming out" which is to say that 
 |he just lived his life and maintained a bit of plausible deniability. 
 |Growing up Hollywood adjacent, that was very common. Like everybody knew 

Ok i also do "remember his (female) wife", and him sitting in an
interview dressed like a super-conservative.  'Must have been
american TV (colors etc. not like here).  (Btw not a Queen fan,
.. at least not the music group.)  Here in Germany the
super-dressed-up parties in Munich could be seen everywhere, TV,
magazines etc., must have been at least second part of the 80s, if
not sooner.  "Lived his life", .. ok.  But leather trouses with
holes in the back and such, i think even i as a young teenager had
a glue on what was going on.

(There was much more at that time, Culture Club's "Do you really
want to hurt me" was world-wide in i think 1982, you know, in the
German "anti war" film "Das Boot" you see a gay dancing like in
the 20s (cool!  i think gay, yes), in the famous German TV series
(and by that time private TV was new and "noone" was looking it,
meaning *everybody* was looking *that*) "Kir Royal" there is
a Munich restaurant with naked gay man standing on the tables
(maybe a bit inspired from that Clockwork Orange milk bar, well).
Many homosexuals in books of Harold Robbins, in-american-prison
mass-rape-prevented-only-by-becoming-lover from Arthur Hailey, and
such, english/american mega stars in the 70s+.)

But i recall coming-outs, and how unbelievable brave those
(surely) had to be who truly did it.  This continues to this day,
a former national football (soccer..) player revealed in this
century, and for football it was still a no-go, and a nation wide
sensation.  I also recall malicous revealing of sexual orientation
of other people in early 90s at latest.  Famous german TV
moderator Alfred Biolek (in whoms show Kate Bush made their first
TV appearance ever, and Sammy Davis Jr. said something like "man
this is a fantastic show, something like this would be impossible
in America") for example was outed like that, iirc.  An early form
of "me too" maybe.

 |about Rock, for example. Oddly enough, I never had much to do with 
 |Silverlake because there was an entire and huge gay community in Orange 
 |County where I grew up.
 |
 |I do wonder what the buzz was on motss at the time. I vividly remember 
 |seeing Rock on Dynasty and thinking "OMG HE HAS IT!". The internet could 
 |have done so much to get the word out had it been more available at the 
 |time. By the time the internet really started gathering a head of steam, 
 |anti-retrovirals were finally on the horizon but even to this day 
 |pig-ignorance and bigotry are still far too common.
 |
 |But yeah, Berlin. What could have been had the Nazis not snuffed it out. 
 |Sigh.

The americans (as absolute leaders) were also very much smarter
with Japan after WWII than what was done with Germany after WWI.
Very, very much.

(I am not a fan of the 20s, except for some things which possibly
could have happened all the time, in culture, in journalism.  To
be honest, it is quite the opposite, and under the ground, or even
totally obvious, things changed.
I do not think the picture of some hip clubs in Berlin is correct.
But even if, Paris had them, too.  Funky cabarets and such there
were before, when we still had an emperor.  ..To the best of my
knowledge, and totally off-topic, of course.)

 |Mike, who still rues that he didn't come up to ISI in the late 80's for 
 |an IETF meeting to see if there was interest in printing transport \
 |protocols

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)