[ih] Separation of TCP and IP

Thu Jun 30 22:35:48 PDT 2022

I decided to see what I could quickly locate on packet radio and speech/voice experiments around 1978 using Google. There are several articles on the packet radio technology/protocols but I couldn't locate very much information on experiments and demos, especially dates, in papers submitted to conferences and journals.  I am sure there is probably much more information in monthly reports, quarterly reports, final reports, technical reports, and probably the Packet Radio Technical Notes (PRTNs) but I didn't have much luck in finding them online.

The rest of this email summarizes what I thought was most relevant. I apologize in advance for any errors as I was just mostly poking around trying to put things together and I have only skimmed the articles. A paper written by Cliff Weinstein and Jim Forgie in JSAC 1983 was very helpful in tracking down some of the information I wanted to find and there are some references to packet radio in this paper. It has an extensive reference list.  

The November 1978 IEEE Special Issue on Packet Communication is a great start for technology discussions.  Bob Kahn is a co-author on a paper on Packet Radio and support for speech, besides data, is mentioned but there is no elaboration.  Other papers in this issue provide some additional information on speech and packet switching.  The vision to support speech as well as data seems to always have been part of the plan.

The Computer History Museum's brief description of the bread van donation does mention speech .  The write-up states 1977/1978 as the probable time frame for the voice work with no reference to backup documentation that I saw. The work by Gray (see below) does confirm that mobile voice experiments over PRnet did occur in 1978.

Unfortunately, not all references I wanted to check are available on the net.  In particular, I was hoping a paper by Earl Craighill and Paal Spilling would clarify some dates regarding voice experiments since it was published in 1980 for the International Communications Conference.  I can only find the abstract which seems to indicate the data used for the paper relied on emulated traffic. In a separate conference submission Paal Spilling does mention being at SRI during the 1979/80 time frame and working on packet radio.

There is an additional paper by Nachum Shacham, Earl Craighill and Andy Poggio published in 1983.  This paper has a section which talks about packet radio voice experiments and the technical details of what was changed in the packet radio protocols to support speech.  A specific CAP release (CAP5.6.9.2 aka voice protocol?) was made and used during the experimentation.  It does clarify that at least some of  the experiments were done with one host being mobile in the bread van. No dates are included but the paper contains much more information on what was done on PRnet than I have found anywhere else.

I would like to mention the follow-on program to Packet Radio was SURAN.  A paper describing the protocols in the new radio, i.e. the LPR, is included in a special IEEE issue on Packet Radio in 1987.  In this paper, there is specific mention of an ETE (end to end)  header which contained a type of service flag for speech.  The processing of this speech service resembles information presented in the 1983 paper so I think the prior experience was carried forward.   BTW, I think the new radios were just starting to be delivered around the time of this IEEE issue so no experimental data was probably available yet.  I wasn't working on SURAN at this time but David Beyer can probably provide additional information. 

The good news is I did just find a link to the Gray work I mentioned below on the net. It is available at ee.stanford.edu.  This work contains a wealth of information and I have only had time to skim it.  The article also mentions an important demo with speech on the PRnet in June 1982, and the work goes into the separation of TCP and IP as well.  If you can't reach Jim Mathis, I think this article covers what I remember Jim told me in passing on this topic.  

I also learned that Andy Poggio was involved in some of the work done at SRI.  He has changed technical fields but last I heard he was back(?) at SRI if someone would like to contact him.  Nachum has also changed fields but he is no longer at SRI.  

barbara

Jubin, John and Tornow, Janet D., "The DARPA Packet Radio Network Protocols", Proceedings of the IEEE,  Vol 75, No. 1, January 1987.

Gray, Robert M. , "A Survey of Linear Predictive Coding: Part I of Linear Predictive Coding and the Internet Protocol", Foundations and Trends® in Signal Processing: Vol. 3: No. 3, pp 153-202, 2010.

Kahn, Robert E., Gronemeyer, Steven A., Burchfiel, Jerry, and Kunzelman, Ronald C. , "Advances in Packet Radio Technology", Proceedings of the IEEE, Vol. 66, No. 11, November 1978.
Shacham, Nachum,  Craighill, E.J.,  and Poggio, Andrew A., "Speech transport in packet radio networks", IEEE Journal on Selected Areas in Communications, Vol  SAC-1, No. 6, December 1983.
Spilling, P., "The Internet Development Process: Observations and Reflections", 3rd History of Nordic Computer (HiNC),
 pp.297-304, October 2010.

Spilling, P. and Craighill, E. "Digital voice communication in the packet radio network", Int. Conf. Commun., June 1980.

Weinstein, Clifford J. , and Forgie, James W., "Experience with Speech Communication in Packet Networks", IEEE Journal on Selected Areas in Communications, Vol  SAC-1, No. 6, December 1983.

    On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 10:14:16 PM PDT, Barbara Denny <b_a_denny at yahoo.com> wrote:  

  I didn't find much doing a quick search for information on voice and packet radio but this work might have more information about what happened.  An overview of the material for the book contains the table of contents. The title of the 1978 chapter includes PRnet.
barbara 
Robert M. Gray (2010), "A Survey of Linear Predictive Coding: Part I of Linear Predictive Coding and the Internet Protocol", Foundations and Trends® in Signal Processing: Vol. 3: No. 3, pp 153-202. http://dx.doi.org/10.1561/2000000029

    On Sunday, June 26, 2022, 07:08:19 PM PDT, Barbara Denny via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:  

  Packet Radio did exist in 1978.  There may have been voice experiments over Packet Radio in that time frame. I don't whether they were mobile experiments.  Earl Craighill probably would be able to supply more info since I associate him with the bread van and the mickey mouse phone.   I think Earl's health isn't the best so not sure how he is doing. Last I heard he had moved in with one of his daughters. Jan Edl is another possible source of information but I haven't heard anything about her since the early 80s. Of course Don Nielson probably would remember more too. I am sure there are others but I don't recall their names.

barbara 
    On Sunday, June 26, 2022, 05:31:05 PM PDT, Stephen Casner via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:  

 I've just had a chance to read through the TCP-IP split discussion.
Here are a few snippets responding to points relevant to me.

1. Vint said his search for The Oceanview Tales as an ISI/RR report
was unsuccessful and asked if anyone had a copy.  The (or one) reason
the search failed is that it was not published as an ISI/RR.  I have a
pristine copy that includes yellow cover and end pages like an ISI/RR,
but it is spiral-bound.  "Printed by ISI as a courtesy to one of its
research efforts."  Copyright 1979.

Noel also has a copy and listed the chapters therein.  Some are in
Prof. Finnegan's book, but not all.  Noel offered to scan but said his
scanner is broken; mine is working, so I could prepare a scan if
someone wants it.

2. Toerless said: "Starting maybe with Steve Casners
unwillingness?/inability?  (don't remember which one it was ;-) to
hack SunOS kernel sources when implementing RTP and renewed ever
since, not QUIC to the latest."

I honestly don't remember this debate.  But that was around the time
when we were still developing RTP itself, and I imagine working in
userland was much easier.

3. Craig Partridge mentioned seeing a video showing Danny running
around Marina del Rey, using packet voice.  If that video was the
Digital Voice Conferencing movie we made at ISI in 1978, it did show
Danny running in Marina del Rey, but he was running to a phone booth
so he could join the conference from the payphone through the switched
telephone network interface we had built and considered a big deal
because it greatly expanded the access to the packet voice system.
There was nothing mobile in those days (packet radio was still in
progress?).

Craig also mentioned the multimedia conferencing over the Wideband
Network that Claudio Topolcic and I managed.  It use the ST-2 protocol
that was widely denigrated by most of you because it was connection-
oriented, but that was needed for 1-hop transit on the WB net.

4. Jack Haverty wrote about access to uncontrolled packets on the
ARPANET (type 0, subtype 3) being very restricted.  We wanted that
service for packet voice experiments.  Initially the access was very
carefully controlled and monitored, but later in the program BBN was
willing to enable it for our communication sessions without much
concern.  We had demonstrated that it did not kill the network.

                                                        -- Steve
-- 
Internet-history mailing list
Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history

-- 
Internet-history mailing list
Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history