[ih] "The Internet runs on Proposed Standards"

[Jack Haverty]

Hi Andy,

Yes, that's a good example.  But what kind of example....?   If I were 
evaluating a proposal, I'd have some questions.

- Does anyone, other than the manufacturer's own marketing department, 
agree that the "standard" technology is implemented and operational in 
the product?
- Has another manufacturer implemented their own independent 
implementation?  Has it been tested to interact properly with the first 
manufacturer's implementation?
- Has any independent entity tested the implementations and verified it 
is operating as defined, and "certified" the product to be true to the 
Standards specification.
- Has any early adopter integrated the new product into an existing 
operational network system?  How did they accomplish the changeover?

Depending on the answers, the example might be a successful deployment 
of an Internet Standard.   Or it might be an example of a proprietary 
solution that is only known to work in a network composed only of 
equipment from that manufacturer -- i.e., a "walled garden" technology 
which happens to use mechanisms defined in RFCs.

My point about "process" is the apparent lack of mechanisms analogous to 
things like UL for the electricity infrastructure, and rules and 
regulations such as building codes, and enforsement mechanisms such as 
inspectors - i.e., things typically associated with mature 
"infrastructures".

The "deployment process" of the Internet in the 1980s was crude and 
rudimentary, but it existed and was somewhat effective.  Somehow along 
the way it seems to have disappeared even as the technology evolved.   
Perhaps some Historian will explore that someday.

Jack

On 12/3/22 14:23, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Jack,
>
> I've been on both the sending and receiving side of Internet Backbone 
> Equipment RFPs. All you need to do is take a look at the cited RFCs 
> and drafts (not even yet RFCs) and you'll see what I mean. I realize 
> that's not public information and thus hard to defend.
>
> However, you can easily take a look at the online documentation for 
> any big-iron router from Cisco or Juniper, or other router vendor.
>
> I just picked, at random, Cisco's "MPLS Configuration Guide for Cisco 
> 8000 Series Routers, IOS XR Release 7.5.x", which you can find at 
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/iosxr/cisco8000/mpls/75x/b-mpls-cg-cisco8000-75x/implementing-mpls-ldp-75x.html 
> . MPLS is a major feature in today's backbone routers, and goes back 
> to the early 2000s for first backbone deployments. If you scroll down 
> to the referenced RFCs at the end of the document, they are all 
> Proposed Drafts.
>
> There are many many other examples out there.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 4:34 PM Tony Li <tony.li at tony.li> wrote:
>
>
>
>>     On Dec 3, 2022, at 12:37 PM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history
>>     <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>     I still have doubts about "The Internet runs on Proposed
>>     Standards".   Does anybody know -- Is it true?  How do you know?
>>     Personally I haven't found any way, at least as a User, to tell
>>     what technology is inside all the equipment, software, services,
>>     protocols, algorithms, et al that are operating between my
>>     keyboard/screen and yours.  It could be all Standards of some
>>     ilk, or it could all be Proprietary.   It might conform to the
>>     spec, or have some zero-day flaw.  How do you tell?
>
>
>     Data point: BGP is still a draft standard.
>
>     Some might argue that the Internet cannot run without BGP.
>
>     I’m not quite convinced.  I suggest we turn it off and find out. 
>     It should be an interesting experiment.
>
>     Regards,
>     Tony
>