[ih] inter IMP hackery [was Recently restored and a small ARPANET was run using simulated IMP hardware, ]

[Jack Haverty]

Geoff,

Re: "were their processes on (all?) the ARPANET hosts at the time that
collected data"

While I was in Licklider's group at MIT, Marc Seriff implemented a
"SURVEY" system that periodically (every 15 minutes) probed ARPANET
hosts and recorded their up/down status.  Nothing about performance,
just whether or not they were accessible.

See https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc308.txt

SURVEY was included in the "Scenarios" booklet handed out to attendees
at the ICCC conference/demo in 1972 (see page 3-4 of the brochure).  
You could connect to the SURVEY system at MIT-DM and examine the
availability of ARPANET hosts from the data that was being collected.

At the time, Lick's vision included providing such data services as core
network services.   The DataComputer was the obvious place to store
Data.  At the time, I was involved in building the MIT-DM mail server,
and I had incorporated an interface to the DataComputer.  Users could
mark a message for archival, and it would be transferred to the
DataComputer for posterity.   At the time, we thought their Terabit
(!!!) of online storage was plenty for everyone.   The intent was that
"important" messages (technical reports, etc.) would be good to archive,
while ephemeral messages ("Anybody want lunch?") would not.

IIRC, the SURVEY data was also to be archived as another interesting
dataset.   But I don't remember if Marc ever implemented that, or know
if any of the DataComputer artifacts have survived.

In the early days of the Internet, we replicated some of that ARPANET
experience in the form of the CMCC (Catenet Monitoring and Control
Center), with David Floodpage as the primary implementor.  There are
historical discussions of that at least in the old BBN QTRs and maybe
some IENs/RFCs.   The CMCC was a precursor to the incorporation of the
gateways into the ARPANET NOC mechanisms so gateways were handled much
as the IMPS were.

/Jack



On 9/7/20 11:54 AM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow wrote:
> would be curious to know WHAT did UCLA-NMC measure and HOW did it
> measure it?
>
> i.e. was there a "precursor" to some kind of SNMP capability that
> allowed UCLA-NMC to peer inside IMPs or hosts?
>
> or were their processes on (all?) the ARPANET hosts at the time that
> collected data from their respective OS's that the UCLA-NMC machine
> would then periodically poll to get the data, kind of like the Tenex
> RSSER job processes did with respect to sharing load avg. data among
> themselves?
>
> [btw, believe that unless Leonard Kleinrock <lk at cs.ucla.edu
> <mailto:lk at cs.ucla.edu>> is on/subscriber to the IH list, any reply
> sent to IH would be black holed, as the IH list is most likely
> configured (Joe can confirm) to only allow submissions to it from its
> "subscribers"... ERGO, if Len does reply, even if cc'ng the list,
> you'd need to then manually fwd it to the list for everyone else to see.]
>
> geoff
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 8:36 AM Steve Crocker via Internet-history
> <internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>
>     I don't think the NMC measured anything at the host level, but I
>     could be
>     wrong.  Vint and Len copied explicitly.
>
>     Steve
>
>
>     On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 2:30 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
>     internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>     <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>
>     > On 9/7/20 11:15 AM, Steve Crocker via Internet-history wrote:
>     > > It would be interesting to know the
>     > > transfer rate between MTIPs.
>     > This is the kind of thing that I'd expect the ARPANET NMC (Network
>     > Measurement Center at UCLA, as opposed to NOC - Network Operations
>     > Center at BBN) might have been measuring.  I don't remember ever
>     seeing
>     > any results or raw data from Measurements, and don't know much about
>     > that part of the History.   Were results published somewhere and did
>     > such reports survive?
>     > /Jack
>     >
>     > --
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>
>
> -- 
> Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com <mailto:Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com>
> living as The Truth is True
>
>
>