[ih] byte order, was Octal vs Hex, not Re: Dotted decimal notation

[Jack Haverty]

By "LAN" I mean a situation where a bunch of computers (not just
keyboards/screens) are communicating with each other. 

The Imlacs were the first time I personally encountered "terminals" that
were actually computers.  MazeWars operated by all of those computers
running programs that exchanged information over the "LAN".

/J

On 12/31/20 1:32 PM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow wrote:
> yours truly believes the first "TTY Net" was that was the earliest
> "LAN" implementation was done at Stanford
> on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Suppes Institute for
> Mathematical Studies in the Social Sciences (IMSSS) PDP-10 which my
> 7th/8th grade school (Oak Knoll, in Menlo Park, CA) had a room full of
> Teletype (Model 33's) connected to that provided Computer-assisted
> Instruction (CAI) experiments.  will try to dig an old report on this
> effort...
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 11:18 AM Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org
> <mailto:jack at 3kitty.org>> wrote:
>
>     The MIT-DM TTY controller for our KA PDP-10 was a homebrew device,
>     built by Steve Morton.   Steve really really wanted to design and
>     build a disk interface.  But we already had a disk interface, and
>     just needed more TTY lines.  So he was told to make a TTY
>     interface.  He did, but designed it as if it was to be a disk
>     interface.   I don't recall exactly how it interfaced to the CPU,
>     but it was fast and efficient.
>
>     I added a bit of logic on the RS232 side to boost line speeds up
>     near 100kb/s over RG174 cable spanning between the 2nd (Imlacs)
>     and 9th (PDP-10) floors of the building.   We ran about 8-10
>     Imlacs on those TTY lines, which became a favorite for MazeWars.  
>     It didn't consume very much of the CPU, but it occupied all of the
>     terminals (Imlacs).
>
>     I've wondered if that "TTY Net" was one of the earliest "LAN"
>     implementation.  We certainly used it like a LAN.  Metcalfe hadn't
>     gotten around to inventing Ethernet yet, he was still involved
>     with the IMP interface.
>
>     /Jack
>
>     On 12/31/20 12:34 PM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow wrote:
>>     jack, sure thought so that that so called "legend" is Total
>>     Fantasy...!
>>
>>     btw, serial lines connected to the PDP-10's Line Scanner caused
>>     an Interrupt Per Character... the fact that Mazwar (most
>>     especially with your "bandwidth enhancement") became consumer of
>>     CPU jives with yours truly's remembrance of our KA-10 (SRI-AI)
>>     when yours truly requested our display terminal speeds get
>>     upped to 9600 baud (from 2400) and was told that wasn't gonna
>>     happen cuz 4 9600 baud terminals going flat out would consume all
>>     the the CPU (and leave nothing for the users programs to run)!
>>
>>     we did have ONE "terminal" that went at 9600 baud:
>>     a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_GT40 vector graphic terminal
>>     and when we downloaded programs to it (it was located in our
>>     machine room not to far from the KA-10's console) you could see
>>     the light on the console corresponding to its Job # be on SOLID
>>     -- for a program that was literally just spewing/typing out the
>>     contents of the executable being swallowed by the GT40.
>>
>>     now speaking of something that DARPA DID summarily ban: the NCP
>>     port 21 "Short Text Message" (dirty) Limerick Server... :D
>>
>>     geoff
>>
>>     On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 9:42 AM Jack Haverty via Internet-history
>>     <internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>     <mailto:internet-history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         I just asked this question on a forum of ex-BBN employees,
>>         which is
>>         populated by many of the people who were involved with
>>         building and
>>         operating the ARPANET from its beginning and through the 70s
>>         and 80s.  
>>         That elicited answers from the two people who were in charge
>>         of the
>>         ARPANET project through that time, with ARPA as their
>>         client/boss, as
>>         well as engineers who worked on building and operating it.
>>
>>         The consensus -- no such thing as ARPA banning MazeWars over
>>         the ARPANET
>>         actually happened:
>>
>>         "I would have heard about it if it were true.  I was deeply
>>         connected
>>         with ARPA at the time"
>>
>>         So I'd consider that pretty good evidence that the "legend"
>>         is fantasy.
>>
>>         MazeWars was (unsuccessfully) banned at MIT-DM as it became a
>>         prime
>>         consumer of CPU and Console time, but that mostly just
>>         shifted gaming
>>         into the wee hours of the day.   No ARPANET involved.
>>
>>         /Jack Haverty
>>         (MIT-DM 1970-1977; BBN 1977-1990)
>>
>>         On 12/31/20 4:10 AM, Lars Brinkhoff via Internet-history wrote:
>>         > Geoff Goodfellow wrote:
>>         >> the MIT PDP-10 reference must be of Al Vezza's MIT-DM
>>         host, but yours truly
>>         >> is kinda perplexed over the last sentence of:
>>         >>
>>         >> "Mazewar games between MIT and Stanford were a major data
>>         load on the
>>         >> early Arpanet."
>>         >>
>>         >> wondering just what host at Stanford this must have been
>>         -- if not SU-AI --
>>         >> which yours truly recalls had a couple of Imlac's -- one
>>         of which was at
>>         >> JMC's (John McCarthy's) house and other at RWW's (Richard
>>         Weyhrauch's)
>>         >> house -- both of which were connected with 1200 baud
>>         leased lines... hardly
>>         >> big enough to "contribute" to "a major data load on the
>>         early Arpanet." --
>>         >> most especially given that JMC &/ RWW didn't seem to be
>>         the mazewar playing
>>         >> kinda folks...
>>         >>
>>         >> anyone got more "history" here on this...¿¿¿
>>         > I have seen this story many times, but no evidence to back
>>         it up.
>>         >
>>         > It seems DEC WRL's MazeWar for X10/X11/Sunview is one
>>         source for the
>>         > claim.  The manpage says "MazeWar first appeared at MIT in
>>         the early
>>         > 1970s, using IMLAC displays and the ArpaNet network. 
>>         Legend has it
>>         > that, at one point during that period, MazeWar was banned
>>         by DARPA from
>>         > the ArpaNet because half of all the packets in a given
>>         month were
>>         > MazeWar packets flying between Stanford and MIT."
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Internet-history mailing list
>>         Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>         <mailto:Internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
>>         https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com <mailto:Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com>
>>     living as The Truth is True
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com <mailto:Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com>
> living as The Truth is True
>
>
>