[ih] vint's 3 piece suits (was: Internet-history Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2)
the keyboard of geoff goodfellow
geoff at iconia.com
Sat Aug 8 13:11:48 PDT 2020
indeed, that article has some great photos... most notably of which was
(younger) vint cerf wearing... a 3 piece suit!
so yours truly intrepidly is curious to know:
- did vint also sport 3 piece suits in high school?
- when did vint start wearing 2 piece suits?
- has anyone on this list ever seen vint NOT in a 3 piece suit?
sincerely in the interest of a complete Internet History,
geoff
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:41 AM Andrew G. Malis via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> That article has some great photos!
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 9:46 PM Jay Hauben via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
> >
> > Might you want to send this link to Sage?
> > Jay
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 6:50 PM <internet-history-request at elists.isoc.org
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Send Internet-history mailing list submissions to
> > > internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Internet-history digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era Protocol: The
> > > Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
> > > (the keyboard of geoff goodfellow)
> > > 2. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Jack Haverty)
> > > 3. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Vint Cerf)
> > > 4. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Dave Crocker)
> > > 5. Re: Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker) (Dave Crocker)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:52:56 -1000
> > > From: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow <geoff at iconia.com>
> > > To: Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
> > > Subject: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <
> > > CAEf-zrix+kVN-0OEPEqLZJbKLqLSH97rhZDSSNYMpTCxVXJBZg at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > *The RFC may be the ARPANET?s most enduring legacy*
> > > EXCERPT:
> > >
> > > Each March, July, and November, we are reminded that the Internet is
> not
> > > quite the mature, stable technology that it seems to be. We rely on the
> > > Internet as an essential tool for our economic, social, educational,
> and
> > > political lives. But when the Internet Engineering Task Force
> > > <https://ietf.org/> meets every four months at an open conference that
> > > bounces from continent to continent, more than 1,000 people from around
> > the
> > > world gather with change on their minds. Their vision of the global
> > network
> > > that all humanity shares is dynamic, evolving, and continuously
> > improving.
> > > Their efforts combine with the contributions of myriad others to ensure
> > > that the Internet always works but is never done, never complete.
> > >
> > > The rapid yet orderly evolution of the Internet is all the more
> > remarkable
> > > considering the highly unusual way it happens: without a company, a
> > > government, or a board of directors in charge. Nothing about digital
> > > communications technology suggests that it should be self-organizing
> or,
> > > for that matter, fundamentally reliable. We enjoy an Internet that is
> > both
> > > of those at once because multiple generations of network developers
> have
> > > embraced a principle and a process that have been quite rare in the
> > history
> > > of technology. The principle is that the protocols that govern how
> > > Internet-connected devices communicate should be open, expandable, and
> > > robust. And the process that invents and refines those protocols
> demands
> > > collaboration and a large degree of consensus among all who care to
> > > participate.
> > >
> > > As someone who was part of the small team that very deliberately
> adopted
> > a
> > > collaborative, consensus-based process to develop protocols for the
> > ARPANET
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET>?predecessor to the Internet?I
> > have
> > > been pleasantly surprised by how those ideas have persisted and
> > succeeded,
> > > even as the physical network has evolved from 50-kilobit-per-second
> > > telephone lines in the mid-1960s to the fiber-optic, 5G, and satellite
> > > links we enjoy today. Though our team certainly never envisioned
> > > unforgeable ?privacy passes
> > > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-privacy-pass/>? or unique
> > > identifiers
> > > for Internet-connected drones
> > > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/drip/about/>?two proposed
> protocols
> > > discussed at the task force meeting this past March?we did circulate
> our
> > > ideas for the ARPANET as technical memos among a far-flung group of
> > > computer scientists, collecting feedback and settling on solutions in
> > much
> > > the same way as today, albeit at a much smaller scale.
> > >
> > > We called each of those early memos a ?Request for Comments? or RFC.
> > > Whatever networked device you use today, it almost certainly follows
> > rules
> > > laid down in ARPANET RFCs written decades ago, probably including
> > protocols
> > > for sending plain ASCII text (RFC 20
> > > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc20.html>, issued in 1969), audio or
> > video
> > > data streams (RFC 768 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc768.html>,
> 1980),
> > > and
> > > Post Office Protocol, or POP, email (RFC 918
> > > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc918.html>, 1984).
> > >
> > > *Anatomy of an RFC*...
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
> > >
> > > --
> > > Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
> > > living as The Truth is True
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:12:35 -0700
> > > From: Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org>
> > > To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > > Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
> > > Message-ID: <2599cd97-c21a-11c6-49d3-cf874fefdaaa at 3kitty.org>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > >
> > > Thanks, Geoff, interesting article...
> > >
> > > While the RFC has been enduring, I've always wondered -- where are all
> > > the Comments in response to those thousands of RFCs that Requested
> > them???
> > >
> > > Is there some "form" site somewhere where each RFC appears when
> > > published and has a "Comments" section to collect and preserve the
> > > Comments.?? That kind of thing is pervasive today on all sorts of news
> > > sites, blogs, etc.?? But IMHO the RFCs have somehow always been
> ignoring
> > > the Cs they Request.
> > >
> > > I recall writing only several RFCs, but comments typically came back
> via
> > > email discussions. ? Sometimes for years.? I fear most of that aspect
> of
> > > Internet History, the comments and discussions, has been lost. ? I
> > > wonder if the long-standing "technology" of RFCs needs a Version 2,
> > > which captures and preserves the Comments just as it has done for
> > > decades with the Requests.
> > >
> > > I guess I should write an RFC about that........
> > >
> > > /Jack
> > >
> > > On 8/7/20 2:52 PM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
> Internet-history
> > > wrote:
> > > > *The RFC may be the ARPANET?s most enduring legacy*
> > > > EXCERPT:
> > > >
> > > > Each March, July, and November, we are reminded that the Internet is
> > not
> > > > quite the mature, stable technology that it seems to be. We rely on
> the
> > > > Internet as an essential tool for our economic, social, educational,
> > and
> > > > political lives. But when the Internet Engineering Task Force
> > > > <https://ietf.org/> meets every four months at an open conference
> that
> > > > bounces from continent to continent, more than 1,000 people from
> around
> > > the
> > > > world gather with change on their minds. Their vision of the global
> > > network
> > > > that all humanity shares is dynamic, evolving, and continuously
> > > improving.
> > > > Their efforts combine with the contributions of myriad others to
> ensure
> > > > that the Internet always works but is never done, never complete.
> > > >
> > > > The rapid yet orderly evolution of the Internet is all the more
> > > remarkable
> > > > considering the highly unusual way it happens: without a company, a
> > > > government, or a board of directors in charge. Nothing about digital
> > > > communications technology suggests that it should be self-organizing
> > or,
> > > > for that matter, fundamentally reliable. We enjoy an Internet that is
> > > both
> > > > of those at once because multiple generations of network developers
> > have
> > > > embraced a principle and a process that have been quite rare in the
> > > history
> > > > of technology. The principle is that the protocols that govern how
> > > > Internet-connected devices communicate should be open, expandable,
> and
> > > > robust. And the process that invents and refines those protocols
> > demands
> > > > collaboration and a large degree of consensus among all who care to
> > > > participate.
> > > >
> > > > As someone who was part of the small team that very deliberately
> > adopted
> > > a
> > > > collaborative, consensus-based process to develop protocols for the
> > > ARPANET
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET>?predecessor to the
> Internet?I
> > > have
> > > > been pleasantly surprised by how those ideas have persisted and
> > > succeeded,
> > > > even as the physical network has evolved from 50-kilobit-per-second
> > > > telephone lines in the mid-1960s to the fiber-optic, 5G, and
> satellite
> > > > links we enjoy today. Though our team certainly never envisioned
> > > > unforgeable ?privacy passes
> > > > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-privacy-pass/>? or unique
> > > identifiers
> > > > for Internet-connected drones
> > > > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/drip/about/>?two proposed
> > protocols
> > > > discussed at the task force meeting this past March?we did circulate
> > our
> > > > ideas for the ARPANET as technical memos among a far-flung group of
> > > > computer scientists, collecting feedback and settling on solutions in
> > > much
> > > > the same way as today, albeit at a much smaller scale.
> > > >
> > > > We called each of those early memos a ?Request for Comments? or RFC.
> > > > Whatever networked device you use today, it almost certainly follows
> > > rules
> > > > laid down in ARPANET RFCs written decades ago, probably including
> > > protocols
> > > > for sending plain ASCII text (RFC 20
> > > > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc20.html>, issued in 1969), audio or
> > > video
> > > > data streams (RFC 768 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc768.html>,
> > 1980),
> > > and
> > > > Post Office Protocol, or POP, email (RFC 918
> > > > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc918.html>, 1984).
> > > >
> > > > *Anatomy of an RFC*...
> > > >
> > > > [...]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 18:16:03 -0400
> > > From: Vint Cerf <vint at google.com>
> > > To: Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org>
> > > Cc: "Nelson H. F. Beebe via Internet-history"
> > > <internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <
> > > CAHxHgge71u5br6S1PAngRRuM6Het9o3wGZi_GdinGcGw6itz5g at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >
> > > early on, the comments came back as RFCs. Then came email so less of
> the
> > > conversation was captured in RFCs.
> > > then came Internet Drafts which highlighted conversation again.
> > > v
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 6:12 PM Jack Haverty via Internet-history <
> > > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks, Geoff, interesting article...
> > > >
> > > > While the RFC has been enduring, I've always wondered -- where are
> all
> > > > the Comments in response to those thousands of RFCs that Requested
> > them?
> > > >
> > > > Is there some "form" site somewhere where each RFC appears when
> > > > published and has a "Comments" section to collect and preserve the
> > > > Comments. That kind of thing is pervasive today on all sorts of
> news
> > > > sites, blogs, etc. But IMHO the RFCs have somehow always been
> > ignoring
> > > > the Cs they Request.
> > > >
> > > > I recall writing only several RFCs, but comments typically came back
> > via
> > > > email discussions. Sometimes for years. I fear most of that aspect
> > of
> > > > Internet History, the comments and discussions, has been lost. I
> > > > wonder if the long-standing "technology" of RFCs needs a Version 2,
> > > > which captures and preserves the Comments just as it has done for
> > > > decades with the Requests.
> > > >
> > > > I guess I should write an RFC about that........
> > > >
> > > > /Jack
> > > >
> > > > On 8/7/20 2:52 PM, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
> > Internet-history
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > *The RFC may be the ARPANET?s most enduring legacy*
> > > > > EXCERPT:
> > > > >
> > > > > Each March, July, and November, we are reminded that the Internet
> is
> > > not
> > > > > quite the mature, stable technology that it seems to be. We rely on
> > the
> > > > > Internet as an essential tool for our economic, social,
> educational,
> > > and
> > > > > political lives. But when the Internet Engineering Task Force
> > > > > <https://ietf.org/> meets every four months at an open conference
> > that
> > > > > bounces from continent to continent, more than 1,000 people from
> > around
> > > > the
> > > > > world gather with change on their minds. Their vision of the global
> > > > network
> > > > > that all humanity shares is dynamic, evolving, and continuously
> > > > improving.
> > > > > Their efforts combine with the contributions of myriad others to
> > ensure
> > > > > that the Internet always works but is never done, never complete.
> > > > >
> > > > > The rapid yet orderly evolution of the Internet is all the more
> > > > remarkable
> > > > > considering the highly unusual way it happens: without a company, a
> > > > > government, or a board of directors in charge. Nothing about
> digital
> > > > > communications technology suggests that it should be
> self-organizing
> > > or,
> > > > > for that matter, fundamentally reliable. We enjoy an Internet that
> is
> > > > both
> > > > > of those at once because multiple generations of network developers
> > > have
> > > > > embraced a principle and a process that have been quite rare in the
> > > > history
> > > > > of technology. The principle is that the protocols that govern how
> > > > > Internet-connected devices communicate should be open, expandable,
> > and
> > > > > robust. And the process that invents and refines those protocols
> > > demands
> > > > > collaboration and a large degree of consensus among all who care to
> > > > > participate.
> > > > >
> > > > > As someone who was part of the small team that very deliberately
> > > adopted
> > > > a
> > > > > collaborative, consensus-based process to develop protocols for the
> > > > ARPANET
> > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET>?predecessor to the
> > Internet?I
> > > > have
> > > > > been pleasantly surprised by how those ideas have persisted and
> > > > succeeded,
> > > > > even as the physical network has evolved from 50-kilobit-per-second
> > > > > telephone lines in the mid-1960s to the fiber-optic, 5G, and
> > satellite
> > > > > links we enjoy today. Though our team certainly never envisioned
> > > > > unforgeable ?privacy passes
> > > > > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-privacy-pass/>? or unique
> > > > identifiers
> > > > > for Internet-connected drones
> > > > > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/drip/about/>?two proposed
> > > protocols
> > > > > discussed at the task force meeting this past March?we did
> circulate
> > > our
> > > > > ideas for the ARPANET as technical memos among a far-flung group of
> > > > > computer scientists, collecting feedback and settling on solutions
> in
> > > > much
> > > > > the same way as today, albeit at a much smaller scale.
> > > > >
> > > > > We called each of those early memos a ?Request for Comments? or
> RFC.
> > > > > Whatever networked device you use today, it almost certainly
> follows
> > > > rules
> > > > > laid down in ARPANET RFCs written decades ago, probably including
> > > > protocols
> > > > > for sending plain ASCII text (RFC 20
> > > > > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc20.html>, issued in 1969), audio
> or
> > > > video
> > > > > data streams (RFC 768 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc768.html>,
> > > 1980),
> > > > and
> > > > > Post Office Protocol, or POP, email (RFC 918
> > > > > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc918.html>, 1984).
> > > > >
> > > > > *Anatomy of an RFC*...
> > > > >
> > > > > [...]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/cyberspace/todays-internet-still-relies-on-an-arpanetera-protocol-the-request-for-comments
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Internet-history mailing list
> > > > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > > > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > new postal address:
> > > Google, LLC
> > > 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, Suite 1400
> > > Reston, VA 20190
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:40:17 -0700
> > > From: Dave Crocker <dhc at dcrocker.net>
> > > To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > > Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
> > > Message-ID: <f01b1abb-e6ca-4505-0e27-c76bb66269c9 at dcrocker.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> > >
> > > On 8/7/2020 3:12 PM, Jack Haverty via Internet-history wrote:
> > > > While the RFC has been enduring, I've always wondered -- where are
> all
> > > > the Comments in response to those thousands of RFCs that Requested
> > them?
> > > >
> > > > Is there some "form" site somewhere where each RFC appears when
> > > > published and has a "Comments" section to collect and preserve the
> > > > Comments.?? That kind of thing is pervasive today on all sorts of
> news
> > > > sites, blogs, etc.?? But IMHO the RFCs have somehow always been
> > ignoring
> > > > the Cs they Request.
> > >
> > >
> > > emails, internet-drafts, web pages, meeting presentations and
> > > recordings, etc.
> > >
> > > There is excellent archiving of the RFCs, but there has been no
> interest
> > > historical retention of of the surrounding mass of supporting work
> > > product. It seems that folk think the usual 'backups' are sufficient...
> > >
> > > d/
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dave Crocker
> > > Brandenburg InternetWorking
> > > bbiw.net
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 5
> > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 15:49:39 -0700
> > > From: Dave Crocker <dhc at dcrocker.net>
> > > Cc: "Nelson H. F. Beebe via Internet-history"
> > > <internet-history at elists.isoc.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [ih] Today?s Internet Still Relies on an ARPANET-Era
> > > Protocol: The Request for Comments (Steve Crocker)
> > > Message-ID: <e7800b82-30f0-6db2-a738-d26387e02843 at dcrocker.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> > >
> > > On 8/7/2020 3:16 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
> > > > then came Internet Drafts which highlighted conversation again.
> > >
> > > Even I-Ds tend to be used in a more formal way, now, making them more
> > > representative of RFC development snapshots than of comment indicators,
> > > which are handled in email and meetings.
> > >
> > > There is, occasionally, an I-D done as a comment on other work -- with
> > > no intent for RFC publication -- but that's extremely rare.
> > >
> > > d/
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dave Crocker
> > > Brandenburg InternetWorking
> > > bbiw.net
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Subject: Digest Footer
> > >
> > > Internet-history mailing list
> > > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > End of Internet-history Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2
> > > ***********************************************
> > >
> > --
> > Internet-history mailing list
> > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> >
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>
>
--
Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
living as The Truth is True
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