[ih] IEN Notes and INWG

[John Day]

>John,
>that's a great list of names - thanks for taking 
>time to try to remember so many of them.

Took me a while to remember Peter Shicker!  I 
could see his face, but the name wouldn't come.

>
>I think the term "IWG" was used to emulate "NWG" 
>that Steve Crocker led, but IWG was never used 
>much. By 1976 this group was mostly those funded 
>by DARPA to TCP, IP and higher level utility or 
>applications - most of which were initially 
>ported from their NCP base on ARPANET.

Agreed. INWG was suppose to be the International version of the NWG.

ARPA was funding the UCL crowd, right?  But 
wouldn't have been funding Vissers, ETH, 
Linington was at Cambridge so probably not, nor 
Gregor, nor the INRIA guys, Shepherd was working 
for a Canadian bank.  That was also when EIN had 
gotten started.

Is that really the distinction between INWG and 
IEN notes? IEN was the DARPA funded guys and INWG 
was them and everyone else?  ;-)

There is a list of participants in the Liege 
conference proceedings.  It was a big meeting! 
Lots of old names there.  (I didn't go.  We could 
afford to send one person and Grossman was the 
senior guy. So Gary got to go.  But I did get the 
T-shirt!)  ;-)

Take care,
John

Take care,
John

>vint
>
>
>On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:47 AM, John Day 
><<mailto:jeanjour at comcast.net>jeanjour at comcast.net> 
>wrote:
>
>Just an addendum to that last note:
>
>The FDT paper which was a bibliography of the 
>current work in the area may have been the first 
>"network produced" conference paper. Beginning 
>in 1976, I was living in Houston (my wife was 
>post-doc'ing at Baylor) and working at Illinois 
>and commuting over the 'Net.  (I used Telenet to 
>get Multics and the Multics to get back to 
>Illinois over the ARPANet.)
>
>The database of citations was at Illinois.  It 
>was outputed and moved to Multics, the Intro was 
>added, and since I had no means to print on the 
>conference forms (remember those camera ready 
>forms we had to use?), ftp'ed it to Carl 
>Sunshine in Southern California who printed it 
>and snail mailed it to Danthine in Leige!
>
>The FDT group was primarily Carl, Gregor Bochman 
>at U of Quebec, Chris Vissers Twente U, and 
>myself.  There were undoubtedly others but I 
>have forgotten who.  Richard Tenney joined the 
>effort later when it moved to ISO.  (I think but 
>could be wrong about when Richard showed up.)
>
>The VTP group was at least  Peter Higginson, 
>UCL; Peter Linington(?), Don Shepherd, Canada; 
>two people from ETH-Zurich (Ann Duenki (sp?) and 
>Peter Schicker, probably Michel Gien or Hubert 
>Zimmermann and maybe Najah Naffah from INRIA and 
>myself.  There were undoubtedly others I can't 
>remember.  There were no authors on the paper. 
>Somewhere I have photos taken at a VTP meeting 
>at INRIA in the fall of 77 but not a real group 
>photo.
>
>
>At 7:01 -0400 2010/03/24, John Day wrote:
>
>Correct.  As someone stated before the IEN 
>series and the INWG series were documents for 
>two different groups.
>
>INWG had 3 sub-groups.  One working on 
>Transport, one working on a Virtual Terminal 
>Protocol, and one working on Formal Description 
>Techniques.  The final output of all three were 
>published as appendices to the conference 
>proceedings of the conference in Liege in Feb 
>1978.
>
>Interestingly, the VTP paper has an ISO 
>TC97/SC16 cover sheet on it.  The first meeting 
>of SC16 was still a few weeks away.  The other 
>two do not.  The INWG FDT work lead directly to 
>the ISO FDT work, so that would imply that all 3 
>papers were contributions to that first meeting 
>in DC.
>
>At 10:02 +0100 2010/03/24, Matthias Bärwolff wrote:
>
>Still, Noel's take on the name of the ARPA sponsored TCP work as
>documented in the IEN series seems to be right, too. Browsing through
>some of the IENs, the term "Internet Working Group" appears -- though
>somewhat casually -- at least two times: in IEN 26 and IEN 60. Obviously
>this in no relation whatsoever to the "official" INWG (as in Internation
>Network Working Group, also: IFIP WG 6.1); and, sure enough, "Internet
>Protocol", or just "Internet"  was coming to be abbreviated "IN" in some
>of the IENs.
>
>John Day wrote:
>
>  INWG originally stood for International Network Working Group, as
>  opposed to the NWG which was the ARPANET group.
>
>
>
>
>
>  At 16:42 -0400 2010/03/23, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>     > From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rwolff?= 
><<mailto:mbaer at cs.tu-berlin.de>mbaer at cs.tu-berlin.de>
>
>     > Just a quick question: Is it fair to say the IEN Notes came out of
>     > INWG, or were these two different games? (There were INWG Notes,
>  too.)
>     > Put differently, did the "group" that produced the IENs have a
>  name of
>     > its own?
>
>  Ah, you have, in that last sentence, put your finger on the problem!
>
>  The group of people working under the DARPA banner didn't, AFAIK, have a
>  formal name. However, the group that worked on IP was occasionally
>  called the
>  "internet working group" (see, for instance, the first sentence of IEN
>  #26).
>
>  When one remembers that the acronym used for 'Internet' at that point
>  in time
>  was IN, you can see exactly where this is going... The INWG that
>  produced the
>  INWG Notes was a _different_ Internet Working Group (as others have
>  already
>  pointed out).
>
>  Just to maximize the confusion, at different times it was either one
>
>  >> or two
>
>  groups! Originally there was just one TCP group, then when TCP was
>  split into
>  TCP and IP, there were (for a while) separate TCP and IP groups - or, at
>  least, separate (temporally adjoining, I think) meetings.
>
>
>  Anyway, if you see contemporaneous (or later - the matching names have
>  confused more than one incautious historian, I have discovered)
>  references to
>  an "Internet Working Group", you need to dig a little deeper and work out
>  exactly _which_ "Internet Working Group" is being talked about...
>
>     Noel
>
>
>
>--
>Matthias Bärwolff
><http://www.xn--brwolff-5wa.de>www.bärwolff.de
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