[Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
Saso Nozic Serini
sasonozic at gmail.com
Sun Oct 13 11:39:11 PDT 2024
Hello
I working for ISOC from 2007 in various capacitys. I was never a fellow or
travel fellow. ISOC also refuse to hire me,I applied for various position.
But instead giving up I have more energy and more motivation to work for
ISOC and ICANN.
Sašo Nožič Serini
V ned., 13. okt. 2024, 19:57 je oseba b1harlem nyc via Chapter-delegates <
chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> napisala:
> No It's the other way around i am sorry your team has rejected our
> chapters work and we are in nyc everyday
> Thank you
>
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 13:55 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
> wrote:
>
>> OK - sorry you feel that way. I’ll be in NYC, I’d be happy to meet NYC
>> Chapter anyway.
>>
>> Best, Chris
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* b1harlem nyc <smartnet.nyc at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 7:36 PM
>> *To:* Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>> *Cc:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <
>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory
>> Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>
>> Don't really see the point we been around a long time the rejections
>> and circular demeaning paternalistic platitudes and responses are
>> luguburious and invidious and being told about others plans while
>> simultaneously rejecting what works is the standard off-the-shelf same
>> all explaining ....the community we serve has had enough of it...I don't
>> know you from a can of paint can't see the benefit of more explanation
>> about the plans of those who has rejected us and our community
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Doug Frazier
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 13:13 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Great - I’ll message NYC chapter off list and find a time to chat. I’m
>>> in NYC 18-19-20 Nov so if an in person meeting is that'd be ace. I'd really
>>> love to meet the NYC chapter and talk about this, and talk about what we've
>>> got planned in the future and how we can work together.
>>>
>>> I'm looking forward to it - thanks Doug!
>>>
>>> Best, Chris
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* b1harlem nyc <smartnet.nyc at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 7:06 PM
>>> *To:* Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>>> *Cc:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory
>>> Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>>
>>> No disrespect intended but it seems to be pretty obvious don't see the
>>> reason to look beyond the obvious..however we are always willing to
>>> communicate with others
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 13:00 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep that’s great - would still love to meet and chat about what
>>>> happened so I can learn from it.
>>>>
>>>> Best, Chris
>>>>
>>>> *Chris Locke,* EVP & MD of Internet Society Foundation
>>>>
>>>> locke at isocfoundation.org | Time zone: UTC -0 | Pronouns: he/him/his
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: signatureImage]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Donate today. <https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ>* Help protect the Internet for
>>>> everyone.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* b1harlem nyc <smartnet.nyc at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 6:58:42 PM
>>>> *To:* Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>>>> *Cc:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory
>>>> Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>>>
>>>> Full disclosure we received a beyond the net grant pre pandemic so we
>>>> do know how to fill out a application it says here
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> Doug Frazier
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 12:54 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OK - I’ll be in NYC next month. Let me speak to you and I’ll share info
>>>> and talk you through the application process and how we can improve
>>>> the application and help everyone understand why it was originally denied -
>>>> and also talk about the process of notification when an application is
>>>> denied and see what we can do to improve this. I’m also happy to jump on a
>>>> call earlier but very happy to meet the NYC chapter in person to discuss
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Best, Chris
>>>>
>>>> *Chris Locke,* EVP & MD of Internet Society Foundation
>>>>
>>>> locke at isocfoundation.org | Time zone: UTC -0 | Pronouns: he/him/his
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: signatureImage]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Donate today. <https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ>* Help protect the Internet for
>>>> everyone.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> on behalf of b1harlem nyc via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 6:40:36 PM
>>>> *To:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>
>>>> *Cc:* ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory
>>>> Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>>>
>>>> Just to set the record straight the nyc chapter received 2 beyond the
>>>> net rejections over this year
>>>>
>>>> The rejection announcement was exactly like the first except one
>>>> part read ...."we cannot tell you why we denied your application" and the
>>>> the rest is the same....
>>>>
>>>> Our application to expand the live streaming service and our proposal
>>>> to also provide access to chapter members through our Resident Public
>>>> Safety Teaching Network in partnership with the New York City Housing
>>>> Authority residents set up by our chapter and operated by the residents
>>>> themselves and funded by the residents ...not only were they the residents
>>>> deemed unworthy of ISOC board of directors exclusive
>>>> Service Foundations non volunteer controlled grant.(nothing new for
>>>> our community)
>>>>
>>>> We were treated to a (2nd)written letter were we were told specifically
>>>> and I must admit incredulous WHY our application was DISQUALIFIED (this
>>>> before getting our we cannot tell you why letter)
>>>>
>>>> The ISOC board of directors non volunteer Service Foundations (we tell
>>>> you why) rejection letter explained they our group was being denied,
>>>>
>>>> because as board members of the nyc chapter of isoc (we) have a
>>>> conflict of interest because we work (volunteer) with the 501c not for
>>>> profit that runs the teaching network a not for profit operated by the
>>>> residents themselves!
>>>>
>>>> And which I and another nyc chapter board member serve on that not for
>>>> profits board! as volunteers (thesmartci.org) and therfore because of
>>>> same, rejection of our beyond the net application resulted..But wait
>>>> there's more
>>>>
>>>> Our efforts was also rewarded with the dreaded double DISQUALIFICATION
>>>> according to the Isoc board of directors service organization non
>>>> volunteers rejection letters
>>>>
>>>> The nyc chapter application for (beyond the net funds)
>>>> Was further DISQUALIFIED for proposing to spend more than 20 per cent
>>>> of the requested amount on the residents of the New York City Housing
>>>> Authority themselves you know the poorest among us !!
>>>>
>>>> I can not guess why the ISOC board of directors would not want to see
>>>> those community folks get anything out of the enormous sum allocated to
>>>> volunteers by the largess of the Isoc board of directors through their
>>>> exclusive Service provider and non volunteers at the Foundation.
>>>>
>>>> Insert lyrics from famous rap song.."you though I was a donut you tried
>>>> to glaze
>>>>
>>>> Item last:
>>>>
>>>> miss me with the fancy talking new guy wow there is money to hire
>>>> medical doctor ??
>>>>
>>>> Can not make this it up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doug Frazier
>>>>
>>>> Proud member and volunteer of
>>>> the nyc chapter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 06:04 Winthrop Yu via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +1 Joel, Doug, Christian, Hank, Eduardo, and most especially to
>>>> Olivier.
>>>>
>>>> Others have already pointed-out that $64,000/year is a very reasonable
>>>> outlay for the scope and quality of the work that Joly was doing. What
>>>> would be the cost of an entire Comms team doing that work, or if this work
>>>> were to be outsourced to yet another tech company (like SalesForce.com for
>>>> a "product" like Fonteva)?
>>>>
>>>> But we are told that we can still have the work done -- simply apply
>>>> for a BTN grant. Well, now we know that ISOC-NY did apply for a one-time
>>>> grant to archive and save about 800 livestream videos. The result? ISOC
>>>> Foundation rejected this *tiny, minuscule* Beyond the Net application,
>>>> the reason given by ISOC Foundation was: "*the total number of
>>>> requests we receive exceed the amount of funding we have available and we
>>>> must select projects most closely aligned to the goals of our Foundation*".
>>>> A paltry $1K -- not aligned with goals?
>>>>
>>>> That, ladies and gents, says a lot about the state ISOC (HQ) is in
>>>> nowadays.
>>>>
>>>> WYn
>>>> PH
>>>>
>>>> On 11/10/2024 7:56 PM, Joel Okomoli via Chapter-delegates wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Frazier! and +1,
>>>>
>>>> This attitude is spread across the various programs run by ISOC! We
>>>> have seen fellows and travel fellowships being awarded to very strange
>>>> fellows who do not even understand the Mission and Vision of ISOC!
>>>>
>>>> The outcome is that the said fellows ride on such funds then quickly
>>>> disappear without trace! Occasionally they pop up - as staff and then you
>>>> begin to see the connection. This is a small world and it looks like our
>>>> former CEO entrenched the culture. I believe any openings in this ecosystem
>>>> should be given to the active volunteers! That is what will grow The
>>>> Internet Society.
>>>>
>>>> My observation, I could be wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Joel Okomoli
>>>> ISOC Kenya Chapter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 1:37 PM b1harlem nyc via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's exactly what I was thinking as well.. we have a situation where
>>>> the non volunteers are dictating what is being done with allocation of
>>>> resources. And just refusing to acknowledge they are wrong on this and
>>>> maybe being a penny wise and a pound foolish.
>>>>
>>>> First we are treated to fancy intelligent parsing and explaining (by
>>>> non volunteers) as to why( volunteers) cannot have 64 000 dollars to
>>>> document chapter efforts by volunteers!
>>>> Mostly because they (non volunteers) said so!
>>>>
>>>> When that was challenged we were treated to fancy legal explanations
>>>> courtesy of the non volunteer legal attorney..when challenged by Oliver's
>>>> well thought out logical response we got legal obsification...
>>>>
>>>> Most enlightening though of the we versus they attitude of the you
>>>> guess it (non volunteers) was the revelation that 5 million dollars of
>>>> internt society monies was given to some private group (non volunteer of
>>>> course)
>>>>
>>>> When Oliver and others asked about how the non volunteers transferred
>>>> gifted..allocated ..awarded 5 .million dollars to another non volunteer
>>>> group while denying the volunteers request for 64000 dollars for
>>>> documentation of chapter work
>>>> We were informed by (non voluteer attorney) you dont need to see any
>>>> documents regarding that, nothing to see here!.. (again because the non
>>>> volunteers lawyer said so) when that didnt work and she was challenged by
>>>> non volunteers...we given More fancy legal word salad with
>>>> obsification on the side just for good measure...
>>>>
>>>> Insert lyrics from well known song "you thought I was a donut you tried
>>>> to glaze me"
>>>>
>>>> We should see this as a teaching moment as a proud member of the nyc
>>>> chapter we see this circular demeaning paternalistic logic all the time in
>>>> our work with the residents of the nyc housing authority... the largest in
>>>> the country
>>>>
>>>> The people who live there are ignored by and on every turn by the same
>>>> set up as we have here ..thier concerns are meet by the same platitudes and
>>>> responses that always deliver the same message only we (non volunteers/non
>>>> residents in both instances) and we only have the only good ideas and how
>>>> dare you question that..and think we are going to listen to you!..
>>>>
>>>> We (non volunteers) will circle the wagons and protect the non
>>>> volunteers and forget the fact that the
>>>> Volunteers are the heart and sole of any society including the
>>>> internet...
>>>>
>>>> This happens more the we all probably think .
>>>> Notice the resistance over something so obvious and they cannot solve
>>>> it without trying not to loose face and protect previous decisions thereby
>>>> appearing to have no regard or even realizing we are supposed to be and act
>>>> like a team and we they are not!!
>>>>
>>>> This is the seeds of devisiveness when you have no regard for your
>>>> teammates ...point blank full stop
>>>>
>>>> OK none can say we were not told!
>>>>
>>>> Doug Frazier
>>>> Proud Board Member and Volunteer of the nyc Chapter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 05:10 Christian de Larrinaga via
>>>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's not the issue if I've understood what people are asking. The
>>>> message appears to be ISOC is looking increasingly like a "black box" to
>>>> the community saying it is treated as consumers rather than as an
>>>> integral part of the decision and governance making process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> vinton cerf via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>> writes:
>>>>
>>>> The foundation is formally a supporting organization under nonprofit
>>>> tax
>>>> law.
>>>> V
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 12:35 Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>> IIona:
>>>>
>>>> From your email, I understand there is no formal "contract for
>>>> services"
>>>> between ISOC and the ISOC Foundation. Is my interpretation correct?
>>>>
>>>> -ed
>>>> ISOC Puerto Rico
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 12:04 PM Ilona Levine via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your follow up email. I think the use of the term
>>>> "outsourcing" in the email below might have caused some confusion.
>>>> You
>>>> mentioned you are familiar with the “supporting organizations” and
>>>> how they
>>>> operate, but it might also be helpful for me to provide some
>>>> additional
>>>> background for others.
>>>>
>>>> As you know, the relationship between supporting and supported
>>>> organizations is not a vendor or contractor relationship. Though
>>>> the Foundation is a separate corporation, it is a controlled
>>>> subsidiary of
>>>> ISOC, not a third-party service provider or outside contractor. So
>>>> ISOC is
>>>> not “outsourcing” to the Foundation but instead, the two entities
>>>> cooperate
>>>> to achieve the mission of the Internet Society. In other words, as a
>>>> supporting organization, the Foundation’s purpose is to operate for
>>>> the
>>>> benefit of, and to support, ISOC. In furtherance of that purpose, the
>>>> Foundation conducts programs and activities that benefit ISOC and
>>>> furthers
>>>> ISOC’s mission. For example, the Foundation engages in communications
>>>> activities at the direction of and to the benefit of ISOC.
>>>>
>>>> As you also know based on your extensive experience with nonprofits,
>>>> the
>>>> Internet Society Board develops the overall strategy for ISOC.
>>>> Internet
>>>> Society management then develops its action plan and in turn, works
>>>> with
>>>> the Foundation to ensure that it, as a supporting organization,
>>>> provides
>>>> the support necessary to achieve ISOC’s goals. The Foundation does
>>>> that
>>>> through its own action plan, which sets out objectives for all of its
>>>> functions, including the communications function. So the Board sets
>>>> the
>>>> strategy, Internet Society management creates the action plans, and
>>>> the
>>>> Foundation management allocates resources to support those plans as
>>>> necessary.
>>>>
>>>> After the approval of the 2025 action plans, ISOC will share them with
>>>> the community. As discussed earlier, part of that will be Chris
>>>> presenting
>>>> to this community how the communications group will be tackling its
>>>> work in
>>>> the upcoming year.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Ilona
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com
>>>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 8:47 AM
>>>> *To: *Ilona Levine <levine at isoc.org, Ted IETF <ted.ietf at gmail.com
>>>> *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org, Sally
>>>> Wentworth <wentworth at isoc.org
>>>> *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17
>>>> September 2024
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ilona,
>>>>
>>>> Further to our discussion two weeks ago regarding the definition of
>>>> the
>>>> relationship between the Internet Society and the Internet Society
>>>> Foundation, in the absence of your response, I wish to reiterate the
>>>> need
>>>> for a clear outsourcing agreement between these entities. It is
>>>> recognised
>>>> as good business practice internationally to establish such
>>>> agreements to
>>>> delineate respective liabilities in the execution of these contracts.
>>>>
>>>> Responding to your note: "*All necessary legal documents, including
>>>> agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of
>>>> the
>>>> two organizations.*"
>>>>
>>>> All I am asking is for them to be shared. If that is not possible,
>>>> even
>>>> in a redacted manner, for whatever reason, then please provide a list
>>>> of
>>>> the agreements to which you refer, including the date of the
>>>> agreement, the
>>>> name of the agreement, the signatory parties, and a brief description
>>>> of
>>>> each agreement.
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to your prompt response.
>>>>
>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>> Olivier Crépin-Leblond
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 24/09/2024 17:22, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ilona,
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks for your follow-up.
>>>>
>>>> The thread may not have come all through. During the Chapter Advisory
>>>> Council call, Ted mentioned the transfer of some responsibilities in
>>>> relation to Communications from the Internet Society to the Internet
>>>> Society Foundation. My initial question to Ted was in regards to the
>>>> outsourcing agreement as follows:
>>>>
>>>> *"I was previously unaware of this change. Although the Internet
>>>> Society
>>>> Foundation may have been designated by the Internet Society as a
>>>> "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society, it remains a
>>>> distinct
>>>> and separate legal entity. Therefore, I assume that any "outsourcing"
>>>> of
>>>> responsibilities such as Marketing and/or Communications would be
>>>> defined
>>>> in a written "contract for services" between the Parties setting out
>>>> (inter-alia) the terms, rights, and obligations of each Party. Could
>>>> you
>>>> please provide the terms for such an agreement and any limitations
>>>> therein?
>>>> My principal concern lies in distinguishing between executing the
>>>> Communications Plan and drafting the Communications Plan. These are
>>>> fundamentally different tasks and would undoubtedly be included in the
>>>> "contract for services"".*
>>>>
>>>> The top level responsibility of the strategy of the Internet Society
>>>> remains within the Internet Society. I find it surprising that an
>>>> outsourcing entity would be able to dictate that strategy without it
>>>> being
>>>> agreed by the Internet Society itself.
>>>> The Internet Society has the opportunity to outsource the execution of
>>>> its Communications Plan to a supporting organisation on the basis of
>>>> terms
>>>> and conditions agreed between the parties. This requires outsourcing
>>>> agreement(s) in order to know where the boundaries and
>>>> responsibilities are
>>>> between the two organisations, including their respective liabilities
>>>> in
>>>> the execution of these agreement(s).
>>>>
>>>> For example:
>>>>
>>>> Key Components of an Outsourcing Communications Agreement
>>>>
>>>> 1. *Introduction and Definitions*:
>>>> - Clearly define the parties involved.
>>>> - Provide definitions for key terms used throughout the
>>>> agreement.
>>>>
>>>> 2. *Scope of Services*:
>>>> - Detail the specific services to be outsourced.
>>>> - Include service level agreements (SLAs) to set performance
>>>> standards.
>>>>
>>>> 3. *Term and Termination*:
>>>> - Specify the duration of the agreement.
>>>> - Outline conditions for termination by either party.
>>>>
>>>> 4. *Pricing and Payment Terms*:
>>>> - Define the pricing structure and payment schedule.
>>>> - Include any penalties for late payments or performance
>>>> failures.
>>>>
>>>> 5. *Confidentiality and Data Protection*:
>>>> - Ensure compliance with data protection laws.
>>>> - Include confidentiality clauses to protect sensitive
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> 6. *Intellectual Property Rights*:
>>>> - Clarify the ownership of any intellectual property created
>>>> during
>>>> the agreement.
>>>>
>>>> 7. *Warranties and Liability*:
>>>> - Outline the warranties provided by the service provider.
>>>> - Define the liability limits for both parties.
>>>>
>>>> 8. *Monitoring and Reporting*:
>>>> - Establish how performance will be monitored and reported.
>>>> - Include provisions for regular review meetings.
>>>>
>>>> 9. *Dispute Resolution*:
>>>> - Specify the process for resolving disputes.
>>>> - Include mediation or arbitration clauses if applicable.
>>>>
>>>> 10. *Exit Management*:
>>>> - Plan for the transition of services back to the company or to
>>>> another provider.
>>>> - Include provisions for the transfer of data and assets.
>>>>
>>>> I trust that you mentioned: "All necessary legal documents, including
>>>> agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of
>>>> the
>>>> two organizations."
>>>>
>>>> Thus I would be interested in its details as explained in my email.
>>>>
>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>> Olivier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23/09/2024 18:36, Ilona Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Olivier,
>>>>
>>>> I understand that the nature of your request is to assist the Chapters
>>>> Advisory Council and Chris Locke in preparation to his session on the
>>>> communication plan. The agreement in place since 2018 between the
>>>> Foundation and Internet Society focuses on the legal obligations in
>>>> line
>>>> with the Foundation's role as a 509(a)(3) and therefore, won’t be
>>>> useful
>>>> for that purpose.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Ilona
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com <ocl at gih.com
>>>> *Date: *Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 8:52 AM
>>>> *To: *Ilona Levine <levine at isoc.org <levine at isoc.org, Ted IETF
>>>> <ted.ietf at gmail.com <ted.ietf at gmail.com
>>>> *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>> <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org, Sally Wentworth <
>>>> wentworth at isoc.org
>>>> <wentworth at isoc.org
>>>> *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17
>>>> September 2024
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ilona,
>>>>
>>>> thank you for clarifying that all necessary legal documents, including
>>>> agreements, have been duly executed to respect the separate nature of
>>>> the
>>>> two organisations.
>>>>
>>>> I am aware of the publication of the original IETF Administration LLC
>>>> agreements with the Internet Society, specifically:
>>>> IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement (2020)
>>>> <
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_Funding_Agreement_-_Executed_-_20201123.pdf
>>>> IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amendment (2020)
>>>> <
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_ISOC_Funding_Amendment_Amendment_-_20201222.pdf
>>>> IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amended and Restated (2024)
>>>> <
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/ISOC-IETF_Amended_Funding_Agreement_-_20240103_-_Redacted_Executed.pdf
>>>>
>>>> These documents are accessible on the IETF Administration LLC’s
>>>> website
>>>> at https://www.ietf.org/administration/overview/.
>>>>
>>>> Could you kindly confirm whether the agreements between the Foundation
>>>> and the Internet Society are also publicly available? I have been
>>>> unable to
>>>> locate them on either website.
>>>>
>>>> I would appreciate it if you could provide a list of the agreements to
>>>> which you refer, including the date of the agreement, the name of the
>>>> agreement, the signatory parties, and a brief description of each
>>>> agreement.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to your kind response.
>>>>
>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>> Olivier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 20/09/2024 19:48, Ilona Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Olivier, thank you for your follow up email. You noted that you
>>>> are
>>>> aware of the tax requirements that apply to supporting organizations.
>>>> Mainly, those requirements relate to supporting the mission of its
>>>> supported entities. In this case, the Internet Society.
>>>>
>>>> As part of that support, the Foundation provides grants to other
>>>> organizations that have missions consistent with the Internet
>>>> Society’s in
>>>> order to fund programs that further the Internet Society’s purposes.
>>>> The
>>>> Foundation also engages in activities that support Internet Society
>>>> directly. For example, the Foundation engages in fundraising and
>>>> communication activities for the benefit of the Internet Society.
>>>>
>>>> As you also pointed out, the Foundation is a separate legal entity.
>>>> It
>>>> is a controlled subsidiary of Internet Society. All necessary legal
>>>> documents, including agreements, have been put in place to respect the
>>>> separate nature of the two organizations.
>>>>
>>>> I trust this answers your question.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Ilona
>>>>
>>>> *Ilona Levine,* SVP, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary
>>>>
>>>> levine at isoc.org|
>>>> internetsociety.org | @internetsociety
>>>>
>>>> Donate today. <https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ
>>>>
>>>> *Help protect the Internet for everyone.*
>>>>
>>>> [image:
>>>>
>>>> https://backchannel.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/image001.png
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> This communication is the property of the Internet Society and may
>>>> contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of
>>>> this
>>>> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received it in
>>>> error,
>>>> please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
>>>> communication and any attachments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com <ocl at gih.com
>>>> *Date: *Friday, September 20, 2024 at 11:38 AM
>>>> *To: *Ted IETF <ted.ietf at gmail.com <ted.ietf at gmail.com, Ilona Levine
>>>> <levine at isoc.org <levine at isoc.org
>>>> *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>> <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org, Sally Wentworth <
>>>> wentworth at isoc.org
>>>> <wentworth at isoc.org
>>>> *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17
>>>> September 2024
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ted,
>>>>
>>>> thank you for your follow-up on this matter. I am aware of the special
>>>> tax terms in relation to "supporting organisations".
>>>>
>>>> That being said, the Internet Society Foundation is a distinct and
>>>> separate legal entity to the Internet Society, irrespective of the
>>>> relationship between them. As a result, any outsourcing task
>>>> undertaken by
>>>> one, for the other entity, would be defined in a contract, whether
>>>> written,
>>>> verbal or otherwise. If not, there is a lack of clarity and
>>>> expectations
>>>> about the relationship, which brings potential liability and risk
>>>> that both
>>>> entities are subjected to, in relation to the other's actions. Any
>>>> lawyer
>>>> would tell you that it is highly advisable to have a written
>>>> contract, if
>>>> only for legal protection.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for letting me know that you are travelling. I am copying
>>>> President and CEO Sally Wentworth in case you're unavailable for a
>>>> length
>>>> of time.
>>>>
>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>> Olivier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 20/09/2024 13:12, Ted Hardie wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>>
>>>> A supporting organization is a term of art in US tax law, please see:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/supporting-organizations-requirements-and-types
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/section-509a3-supporting-organizations
>>>>
>>>> Explaining how the two relate is complicated enough that there are
>>>> legal
>>>> briefs on it; I have cc'ed the Society's chief counsel in case you
>>>> would
>>>> like that level of detail. The summary, however, is that a supporting
>>>> organization is a charity because it supports the charitable purpose
>>>> of the
>>>> main organization. As a result, it can provide services to the main
>>>> organization under the special tax rules noted above.
>>>>
>>>> Note that I am traveling and will generally be slow to respond for a
>>>> few
>>>> days, but hopefully the links above will get you started and Ilona can
>>>> provide more detailed legal information as needed.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Ted Hardie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 6:24 AM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <
>>>> ocl at gih.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ted,
>>>>
>>>> During this week’s Chapters Advisory Council call, you mentioned that
>>>> the
>>>> Internet Society Foundation, as a "supporting organisation" of the
>>>> Internet
>>>> Society, is managing the communications department for the Internet
>>>> Society.
>>>>
>>>> Upon seeking clarification, you explained that the Internet Society
>>>> Foundation comprises two elements: one philanthropic (grant-making)
>>>> and the
>>>> other as a "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society. "This
>>>> implies
>>>> that many of the supporting functions for the Internet Society as a
>>>> whole
>>>> are now part of the Foundation, primarily because the Foundation can
>>>> provide these services to the Internet Society at no cost".
>>>>
>>>> You further elaborated that this "arrangement" allows the Internet
>>>> Society to allocate its budget more effectively.
>>>>
>>>> I was previously unaware of this change. Although the Internet Society
>>>> Foundation may have been designated by the Internet Society as a
>>>> "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society, it remains a
>>>> distinct
>>>> and separate legal entity. Therefore, I assume that any "outsourcing"
>>>> of
>>>> responsibilities such as Marketing and/or Communications would be
>>>> defined
>>>> in a written "contract for services" between the Parties setting out
>>>> (inter-alia) the terms, rights, and obligations of each Party. Could
>>>> you
>>>> please provide the terms for such an agreement and any limitations
>>>> therein?
>>>>
>>>> My principal concern lies in distinguishing between executing the
>>>> Communications Plan and drafting the Communications Plan. These are
>>>> fundamentally different tasks and would undoubtedly be included in the
>>>> "contract for services".
>>>>
>>>> The "contract for services" (together with any relevant supporting
>>>> information) will be helpful input for both the Chapters Advisory
>>>> Council
>>>> and also for Chris Locke and his Team (including for the current
>>>> "branding"
>>>> presentations) in preparation for the promised session from Chris
>>>> Locke to
>>>> the Chapters Advisory Council.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to your response and to receiving a copy of the
>>>> "contract
>>>> for services" agreement, together with any relevant supporting
>>>> information
>>>> as requested above.
>>>>
>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>> Olivier
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>>> -
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
> -
> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>
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