[Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
b1harlem nyc
smartnet.nyc at gmail.com
Sun Oct 13 10:57:23 PDT 2024
No It's the other way around i am sorry your team has rejected our chapters
work and we are in nyc everyday
Thank you
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 13:55 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
wrote:
> OK - sorry you feel that way. I’ll be in NYC, I’d be happy to meet NYC
> Chapter anyway.
>
> Best, Chris
> ------------------------------
> *From:* b1harlem nyc <smartnet.nyc at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 7:36 PM
> *To:* Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
> *Cc:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council
> Meeting of 17 September 2024
>
> Don't really see the point we been around a long time the rejections and
> circular demeaning paternalistic platitudes and responses are luguburious
> and invidious and being told about others plans while simultaneously
> rejecting what works is the standard off-the-shelf same all explaining
> ....the community we serve has had enough of it...I don't know you from a
> can of paint can't see the benefit of more explanation about the plans of
> those who has rejected us and our community
>
> Thanks
>
> Doug Frazier
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 13:13 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Great - I’ll message NYC chapter off list and find a time to chat. I’m in
>> NYC 18-19-20 Nov so if an in person meeting is that'd be ace. I'd really
>> love to meet the NYC chapter and talk about this, and talk about what we've
>> got planned in the future and how we can work together.
>>
>> I'm looking forward to it - thanks Doug!
>>
>> Best, Chris
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* b1harlem nyc <smartnet.nyc at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 7:06 PM
>> *To:* Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>> *Cc:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <
>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory
>> Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>
>> No disrespect intended but it seems to be pretty obvious don't see the
>> reason to look beyond the obvious..however we are always willing to
>> communicate with others
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 13:00 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep that’s great - would still love to meet and chat about what happened
>>> so I can learn from it.
>>>
>>> Best, Chris
>>>
>>> *Chris Locke,* EVP & MD of Internet Society Foundation
>>>
>>> locke at isocfoundation.org | Time zone: UTC -0 | Pronouns: he/him/his
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: signatureImage]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Donate today. <https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ>* Help protect the Internet for
>>> everyone.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* b1harlem nyc <smartnet.nyc at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 6:58:42 PM
>>> *To:* Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>>> *Cc:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory
>>> Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>>
>>> Full disclosure we received a beyond the net grant pre pandemic so we do
>>> know how to fill out a application it says here
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> Doug Frazier
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 12:54 Christopher Locke <locke at isocfoundation.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> OK - I’ll be in NYC next month. Let me speak to you and I’ll share info
>>> and talk you through the application process and how we can improve the
>>> application and help everyone understand why it was originally denied - and
>>> also talk about the process of notification when an application is denied
>>> and see what we can do to improve this. I’m also happy to jump on a call
>>> earlier but very happy to meet the NYC chapter in person to discuss this.
>>>
>>> Best, Chris
>>>
>>> *Chris Locke,* EVP & MD of Internet Society Foundation
>>>
>>> locke at isocfoundation.org | Time zone: UTC -0 | Pronouns: he/him/his
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: signatureImage]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Donate today. <https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ>* Help protect the Internet for
>>> everyone.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>
>>> on behalf of b1harlem nyc via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 13, 2024 6:40:36 PM
>>> *To:* Winthrop Yu <w.yu at gmx.net>
>>> *Cc:* ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory
>>> Council Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>>
>>> Just to set the record straight the nyc chapter received 2 beyond the
>>> net rejections over this year
>>>
>>> The rejection announcement was exactly like the first except one part
>>> read ...."we cannot tell you why we denied your application" and the the
>>> rest is the same....
>>>
>>> Our application to expand the live streaming service and our proposal
>>> to also provide access to chapter members through our Resident Public
>>> Safety Teaching Network in partnership with the New York City Housing
>>> Authority residents set up by our chapter and operated by the residents
>>> themselves and funded by the residents ...not only were they the residents
>>> deemed unworthy of ISOC board of directors exclusive
>>> Service Foundations non volunteer controlled grant.(nothing new for our
>>> community)
>>>
>>> We were treated to a (2nd)written letter were we were told specifically
>>> and I must admit incredulous WHY our application was DISQUALIFIED (this
>>> before getting our we cannot tell you why letter)
>>>
>>> The ISOC board of directors non volunteer Service Foundations (we tell
>>> you why) rejection letter explained they our group was being denied,
>>>
>>> because as board members of the nyc chapter of isoc (we) have a
>>> conflict of interest because we work (volunteer) with the 501c not for
>>> profit that runs the teaching network a not for profit operated by the
>>> residents themselves!
>>>
>>> And which I and another nyc chapter board member serve on that not for
>>> profits board! as volunteers (thesmartci.org) and therfore because of
>>> same, rejection of our beyond the net application resulted..But wait
>>> there's more
>>>
>>> Our efforts was also rewarded with the dreaded double DISQUALIFICATION
>>> according to the Isoc board of directors service organization non
>>> volunteers rejection letters
>>>
>>> The nyc chapter application for (beyond the net funds)
>>> Was further DISQUALIFIED for proposing to spend more than 20 per cent of
>>> the requested amount on the residents of the New York City Housing
>>> Authority themselves you know the poorest among us !!
>>>
>>> I can not guess why the ISOC board of directors would not want to see
>>> those community folks get anything out of the enormous sum allocated to
>>> volunteers by the largess of the Isoc board of directors through their
>>> exclusive Service provider and non volunteers at the Foundation.
>>>
>>> Insert lyrics from famous rap song.."you though I was a donut you tried
>>> to glaze
>>>
>>> Item last:
>>>
>>> miss me with the fancy talking new guy wow there is money to hire
>>> medical doctor ??
>>>
>>> Can not make this it up
>>>
>>>
>>> Doug Frazier
>>>
>>> Proud member and volunteer of
>>> the nyc chapter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 06:04 Winthrop Yu via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 Joel, Doug, Christian, Hank, Eduardo, and most especially to Olivier.
>>>
>>> Others have already pointed-out that $64,000/year is a very reasonable
>>> outlay for the scope and quality of the work that Joly was doing. What
>>> would be the cost of an entire Comms team doing that work, or if this work
>>> were to be outsourced to yet another tech company (like SalesForce.com for
>>> a "product" like Fonteva)?
>>>
>>> But we are told that we can still have the work done -- simply apply for
>>> a BTN grant. Well, now we know that ISOC-NY did apply for a one-time grant
>>> to archive and save about 800 livestream videos. The result? ISOC
>>> Foundation rejected this *tiny, minuscule* Beyond the Net application,
>>> the reason given by ISOC Foundation was: "*the total number of requests
>>> we receive exceed the amount of funding we have available and we must
>>> select projects most closely aligned to the goals of our Foundation*".
>>> A paltry $1K -- not aligned with goals?
>>>
>>> That, ladies and gents, says a lot about the state ISOC (HQ) is in
>>> nowadays.
>>>
>>> WYn
>>> PH
>>>
>>> On 11/10/2024 7:56 PM, Joel Okomoli via Chapter-delegates wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Frazier! and +1,
>>>
>>> This attitude is spread across the various programs run by ISOC! We have
>>> seen fellows and travel fellowships being awarded to very strange fellows
>>> who do not even understand the Mission and Vision of ISOC!
>>>
>>> The outcome is that the said fellows ride on such funds then quickly
>>> disappear without trace! Occasionally they pop up - as staff and then you
>>> begin to see the connection. This is a small world and it looks like our
>>> former CEO entrenched the culture. I believe any openings in this ecosystem
>>> should be given to the active volunteers! That is what will grow The
>>> Internet Society.
>>>
>>> My observation, I could be wrong.
>>>
>>> Joel Okomoli
>>> ISOC Kenya Chapter.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 1:37 PM b1harlem nyc via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>
>>> That's exactly what I was thinking as well.. we have a situation where
>>> the non volunteers are dictating what is being done with allocation of
>>> resources. And just refusing to acknowledge they are wrong on this and
>>> maybe being a penny wise and a pound foolish.
>>>
>>> First we are treated to fancy intelligent parsing and explaining (by non
>>> volunteers) as to why( volunteers) cannot have 64 000 dollars to document
>>> chapter efforts by volunteers!
>>> Mostly because they (non volunteers) said so!
>>>
>>> When that was challenged we were treated to fancy legal explanations
>>> courtesy of the non volunteer legal attorney..when challenged by Oliver's
>>> well thought out logical response we got legal obsification...
>>>
>>> Most enlightening though of the we versus they attitude of the you
>>> guess it (non volunteers) was the revelation that 5 million dollars of
>>> internt society monies was given to some private group (non volunteer of
>>> course)
>>>
>>> When Oliver and others asked about how the non volunteers transferred
>>> gifted..allocated ..awarded 5 .million dollars to another non volunteer
>>> group while denying the volunteers request for 64000 dollars for
>>> documentation of chapter work
>>> We were informed by (non voluteer attorney) you dont need to see any
>>> documents regarding that, nothing to see here!.. (again because the non
>>> volunteers lawyer said so) when that didnt work and she was challenged by
>>> non volunteers...we given More fancy legal word salad with
>>> obsification on the side just for good measure...
>>>
>>> Insert lyrics from well known song "you thought I was a donut you tried
>>> to glaze me"
>>>
>>> We should see this as a teaching moment as a proud member of the nyc
>>> chapter we see this circular demeaning paternalistic logic all the time in
>>> our work with the residents of the nyc housing authority... the largest in
>>> the country
>>>
>>> The people who live there are ignored by and on every turn by the same
>>> set up as we have here ..thier concerns are meet by the same platitudes and
>>> responses that always deliver the same message only we (non volunteers/non
>>> residents in both instances) and we only have the only good ideas and how
>>> dare you question that..and think we are going to listen to you!..
>>>
>>> We (non volunteers) will circle the wagons and protect the non
>>> volunteers and forget the fact that the
>>> Volunteers are the heart and sole of any society including the
>>> internet...
>>>
>>> This happens more the we all probably think .
>>> Notice the resistance over something so obvious and they cannot solve it
>>> without trying not to loose face and protect previous decisions thereby
>>> appearing to have no regard or even realizing we are supposed to be and act
>>> like a team and we they are not!!
>>>
>>> This is the seeds of devisiveness when you have no regard for your
>>> teammates ...point blank full stop
>>>
>>> OK none can say we were not told!
>>>
>>> Doug Frazier
>>> Proud Board Member and Volunteer of the nyc Chapter
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 05:10 Christian de Larrinaga via Chapter-delegates
>>> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> That's not the issue if I've understood what people are asking. The
>>> message appears to be ISOC is looking increasingly like a "black box" to
>>> the community saying it is treated as consumers rather than as an
>>> integral part of the decision and governance making process.
>>>
>>>
>>> vinton cerf via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> writes:
>>>
>>> The foundation is formally a supporting organization under nonprofit
>>> tax
>>> law.
>>> V
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 12:35 Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>
>>> IIona:
>>>
>>> From your email, I understand there is no formal "contract for
>>> services"
>>> between ISOC and the ISOC Foundation. Is my interpretation correct?
>>>
>>> -ed
>>> ISOC Puerto Rico
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 12:04 PM Ilona Levine via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your follow up email. I think the use of the term
>>> "outsourcing" in the email below might have caused some confusion. You
>>> mentioned you are familiar with the “supporting organizations” and how
>>> they
>>> operate, but it might also be helpful for me to provide some additional
>>> background for others.
>>>
>>> As you know, the relationship between supporting and supported
>>> organizations is not a vendor or contractor relationship. Though
>>> the Foundation is a separate corporation, it is a controlled
>>> subsidiary of
>>> ISOC, not a third-party service provider or outside contractor. So
>>> ISOC is
>>> not “outsourcing” to the Foundation but instead, the two entities
>>> cooperate
>>> to achieve the mission of the Internet Society. In other words, as a
>>> supporting organization, the Foundation’s purpose is to operate for the
>>> benefit of, and to support, ISOC. In furtherance of that purpose, the
>>> Foundation conducts programs and activities that benefit ISOC and
>>> furthers
>>> ISOC’s mission. For example, the Foundation engages in communications
>>> activities at the direction of and to the benefit of ISOC.
>>>
>>> As you also know based on your extensive experience with nonprofits,
>>> the
>>> Internet Society Board develops the overall strategy for ISOC. Internet
>>> Society management then develops its action plan and in turn, works
>>> with
>>> the Foundation to ensure that it, as a supporting organization,
>>> provides
>>> the support necessary to achieve ISOC’s goals. The Foundation does that
>>> through its own action plan, which sets out objectives for all of its
>>> functions, including the communications function. So the Board sets
>>> the
>>> strategy, Internet Society management creates the action plans, and the
>>> Foundation management allocates resources to support those plans as
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> After the approval of the 2025 action plans, ISOC will share them with
>>> the community. As discussed earlier, part of that will be Chris
>>> presenting
>>> to this community how the communications group will be tackling its
>>> work in
>>> the upcoming year.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ilona
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com
>>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 8:47 AM
>>> *To: *Ilona Levine <levine at isoc.org, Ted IETF <ted.ietf at gmail.com
>>> *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org, Sally
>>> Wentworth <wentworth at isoc.org
>>> *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17
>>> September 2024
>>>
>>> Dear Ilona,
>>>
>>> Further to our discussion two weeks ago regarding the definition of the
>>> relationship between the Internet Society and the Internet Society
>>> Foundation, in the absence of your response, I wish to reiterate the
>>> need
>>> for a clear outsourcing agreement between these entities. It is
>>> recognised
>>> as good business practice internationally to establish such agreements
>>> to
>>> delineate respective liabilities in the execution of these contracts.
>>>
>>> Responding to your note: "*All necessary legal documents, including
>>> agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of
>>> the
>>> two organizations.*"
>>>
>>> All I am asking is for them to be shared. If that is not possible, even
>>> in a redacted manner, for whatever reason, then please provide a list
>>> of
>>> the agreements to which you refer, including the date of the
>>> agreement, the
>>> name of the agreement, the signatory parties, and a brief description
>>> of
>>> each agreement.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to your prompt response.
>>>
>>> Kindest regards,
>>>
>>> Olivier Crépin-Leblond
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/09/2024 17:22, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Ilona,
>>>
>>> Many thanks for your follow-up.
>>>
>>> The thread may not have come all through. During the Chapter Advisory
>>> Council call, Ted mentioned the transfer of some responsibilities in
>>> relation to Communications from the Internet Society to the Internet
>>> Society Foundation. My initial question to Ted was in regards to the
>>> outsourcing agreement as follows:
>>>
>>> *"I was previously unaware of this change. Although the Internet
>>> Society
>>> Foundation may have been designated by the Internet Society as a
>>> "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society, it remains a
>>> distinct
>>> and separate legal entity. Therefore, I assume that any "outsourcing"
>>> of
>>> responsibilities such as Marketing and/or Communications would be
>>> defined
>>> in a written "contract for services" between the Parties setting out
>>> (inter-alia) the terms, rights, and obligations of each Party. Could
>>> you
>>> please provide the terms for such an agreement and any limitations
>>> therein?
>>> My principal concern lies in distinguishing between executing the
>>> Communications Plan and drafting the Communications Plan. These are
>>> fundamentally different tasks and would undoubtedly be included in the
>>> "contract for services"".*
>>>
>>> The top level responsibility of the strategy of the Internet Society
>>> remains within the Internet Society. I find it surprising that an
>>> outsourcing entity would be able to dictate that strategy without it
>>> being
>>> agreed by the Internet Society itself.
>>> The Internet Society has the opportunity to outsource the execution of
>>> its Communications Plan to a supporting organisation on the basis of
>>> terms
>>> and conditions agreed between the parties. This requires outsourcing
>>> agreement(s) in order to know where the boundaries and
>>> responsibilities are
>>> between the two organisations, including their respective liabilities
>>> in
>>> the execution of these agreement(s).
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> Key Components of an Outsourcing Communications Agreement
>>>
>>> 1. *Introduction and Definitions*:
>>> - Clearly define the parties involved.
>>> - Provide definitions for key terms used throughout the agreement.
>>>
>>> 2. *Scope of Services*:
>>> - Detail the specific services to be outsourced.
>>> - Include service level agreements (SLAs) to set performance
>>> standards.
>>>
>>> 3. *Term and Termination*:
>>> - Specify the duration of the agreement.
>>> - Outline conditions for termination by either party.
>>>
>>> 4. *Pricing and Payment Terms*:
>>> - Define the pricing structure and payment schedule.
>>> - Include any penalties for late payments or performance failures.
>>>
>>> 5. *Confidentiality and Data Protection*:
>>> - Ensure compliance with data protection laws.
>>> - Include confidentiality clauses to protect sensitive
>>> information.
>>>
>>> 6. *Intellectual Property Rights*:
>>> - Clarify the ownership of any intellectual property created
>>> during
>>> the agreement.
>>>
>>> 7. *Warranties and Liability*:
>>> - Outline the warranties provided by the service provider.
>>> - Define the liability limits for both parties.
>>>
>>> 8. *Monitoring and Reporting*:
>>> - Establish how performance will be monitored and reported.
>>> - Include provisions for regular review meetings.
>>>
>>> 9. *Dispute Resolution*:
>>> - Specify the process for resolving disputes.
>>> - Include mediation or arbitration clauses if applicable.
>>>
>>> 10. *Exit Management*:
>>> - Plan for the transition of services back to the company or to
>>> another provider.
>>> - Include provisions for the transfer of data and assets.
>>>
>>> I trust that you mentioned: "All necessary legal documents, including
>>> agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of
>>> the
>>> two organizations."
>>>
>>> Thus I would be interested in its details as explained in my email.
>>>
>>> Kindest regards,
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23/09/2024 18:36, Ilona Levine wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Olivier,
>>>
>>> I understand that the nature of your request is to assist the Chapters
>>> Advisory Council and Chris Locke in preparation to his session on the
>>> communication plan. The agreement in place since 2018 between the
>>> Foundation and Internet Society focuses on the legal obligations in
>>> line
>>> with the Foundation's role as a 509(a)(3) and therefore, won’t be
>>> useful
>>> for that purpose.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ilona
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com <ocl at gih.com
>>> *Date: *Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 8:52 AM
>>> *To: *Ilona Levine <levine at isoc.org <levine at isoc.org, Ted IETF
>>> <ted.ietf at gmail.com <ted.ietf at gmail.com
>>> *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org, Sally Wentworth <
>>> wentworth at isoc.org
>>> <wentworth at isoc.org
>>> *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17
>>> September 2024
>>>
>>> Dear Ilona,
>>>
>>> thank you for clarifying that all necessary legal documents, including
>>> agreements, have been duly executed to respect the separate nature of
>>> the
>>> two organisations.
>>>
>>> I am aware of the publication of the original IETF Administration LLC
>>> agreements with the Internet Society, specifically:
>>> IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement (2020)
>>> <
>>> https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_Funding_Agreement_-_Executed_-_20201123.pdf
>>> IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amendment (2020)
>>> <
>>> https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_ISOC_Funding_Amendment_Amendment_-_20201222.pdf
>>> IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amended and Restated (2024)
>>> <
>>> https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/ISOC-IETF_Amended_Funding_Agreement_-_20240103_-_Redacted_Executed.pdf
>>>
>>> These documents are accessible on the IETF Administration LLC’s website
>>> at https://www.ietf.org/administration/overview/.
>>>
>>> Could you kindly confirm whether the agreements between the Foundation
>>> and the Internet Society are also publicly available? I have been
>>> unable to
>>> locate them on either website.
>>>
>>> I would appreciate it if you could provide a list of the agreements to
>>> which you refer, including the date of the agreement, the name of the
>>> agreement, the signatory parties, and a brief description of each
>>> agreement.
>>>
>>> I look forward to your kind response.
>>>
>>> Kindest regards,
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20/09/2024 19:48, Ilona Levine wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Olivier, thank you for your follow up email. You noted that you are
>>> aware of the tax requirements that apply to supporting organizations.
>>> Mainly, those requirements relate to supporting the mission of its
>>> supported entities. In this case, the Internet Society.
>>>
>>> As part of that support, the Foundation provides grants to other
>>> organizations that have missions consistent with the Internet
>>> Society’s in
>>> order to fund programs that further the Internet Society’s purposes.
>>> The
>>> Foundation also engages in activities that support Internet Society
>>> directly. For example, the Foundation engages in fundraising and
>>> communication activities for the benefit of the Internet Society.
>>>
>>> As you also pointed out, the Foundation is a separate legal entity. It
>>> is a controlled subsidiary of Internet Society. All necessary legal
>>> documents, including agreements, have been put in place to respect the
>>> separate nature of the two organizations.
>>>
>>> I trust this answers your question.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ilona
>>>
>>> *Ilona Levine,* SVP, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary
>>>
>>> levine at isoc.org|
>>> internetsociety.org | @internetsociety
>>>
>>> Donate today. <https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ
>>>
>>> *Help protect the Internet for everyone.*
>>>
>>> [image:
>>>
>>> https://backchannel.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/image001.png
>>> ]
>>>
>>> This communication is the property of the Internet Society and may
>>> contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of
>>> this
>>> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received it in
>>> error,
>>> please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
>>> communication and any attachments.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com <ocl at gih.com
>>> *Date: *Friday, September 20, 2024 at 11:38 AM
>>> *To: *Ted IETF <ted.ietf at gmail.com <ted.ietf at gmail.com, Ilona Levine
>>> <levine at isoc.org <levine at isoc.org
>>> *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org, Sally Wentworth <
>>> wentworth at isoc.org
>>> <wentworth at isoc.org
>>> *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17
>>> September 2024
>>>
>>> Dear Ted,
>>>
>>> thank you for your follow-up on this matter. I am aware of the special
>>> tax terms in relation to "supporting organisations".
>>>
>>> That being said, the Internet Society Foundation is a distinct and
>>> separate legal entity to the Internet Society, irrespective of the
>>> relationship between them. As a result, any outsourcing task
>>> undertaken by
>>> one, for the other entity, would be defined in a contract, whether
>>> written,
>>> verbal or otherwise. If not, there is a lack of clarity and
>>> expectations
>>> about the relationship, which brings potential liability and risk that
>>> both
>>> entities are subjected to, in relation to the other's actions. Any
>>> lawyer
>>> would tell you that it is highly advisable to have a written contract,
>>> if
>>> only for legal protection.
>>>
>>> Thanks for letting me know that you are travelling. I am copying
>>> President and CEO Sally Wentworth in case you're unavailable for a
>>> length
>>> of time.
>>>
>>> Kindest regards,
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20/09/2024 13:12, Ted Hardie wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>
>>> A supporting organization is a term of art in US tax law, please see:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/supporting-organizations-requirements-and-types
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/section-509a3-supporting-organizations
>>>
>>> Explaining how the two relate is complicated enough that there are
>>> legal
>>> briefs on it; I have cc'ed the Society's chief counsel in case you
>>> would
>>> like that level of detail. The summary, however, is that a supporting
>>> organization is a charity because it supports the charitable purpose
>>> of the
>>> main organization. As a result, it can provide services to the main
>>> organization under the special tax rules noted above.
>>>
>>> Note that I am traveling and will generally be slow to respond for a
>>> few
>>> days, but hopefully the links above will get you started and Ilona can
>>> provide more detailed legal information as needed.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Ted Hardie
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 6:24 AM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Ted,
>>>
>>> During this week’s Chapters Advisory Council call, you mentioned that
>>> the
>>> Internet Society Foundation, as a "supporting organisation" of the
>>> Internet
>>> Society, is managing the communications department for the Internet
>>> Society.
>>>
>>> Upon seeking clarification, you explained that the Internet Society
>>> Foundation comprises two elements: one philanthropic (grant-making)
>>> and the
>>> other as a "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society. "This
>>> implies
>>> that many of the supporting functions for the Internet Society as a
>>> whole
>>> are now part of the Foundation, primarily because the Foundation can
>>> provide these services to the Internet Society at no cost".
>>>
>>> You further elaborated that this "arrangement" allows the Internet
>>> Society to allocate its budget more effectively.
>>>
>>> I was previously unaware of this change. Although the Internet Society
>>> Foundation may have been designated by the Internet Society as a
>>> "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society, it remains a
>>> distinct
>>> and separate legal entity. Therefore, I assume that any "outsourcing"
>>> of
>>> responsibilities such as Marketing and/or Communications would be
>>> defined
>>> in a written "contract for services" between the Parties setting out
>>> (inter-alia) the terms, rights, and obligations of each Party. Could
>>> you
>>> please provide the terms for such an agreement and any limitations
>>> therein?
>>>
>>> My principal concern lies in distinguishing between executing the
>>> Communications Plan and drafting the Communications Plan. These are
>>> fundamentally different tasks and would undoubtedly be included in the
>>> "contract for services".
>>>
>>> The "contract for services" (together with any relevant supporting
>>> information) will be helpful input for both the Chapters Advisory
>>> Council
>>> and also for Chris Locke and his Team (including for the current
>>> "branding"
>>> presentations) in preparation for the promised session from Chris
>>> Locke to
>>> the Chapters Advisory Council.
>>>
>>> I look forward to your response and to receiving a copy of the
>>> "contract
>>> for services" agreement, together with any relevant supporting
>>> information
>>> as requested above.
>>>
>>> Kindest regards,
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>> -
>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>
>>>
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