[Chapter-delegates] TikTok Ban. How should ISOC respond?

Mon Dec 9 07:31:44 PST 2024

Just for clarification, I'm speaking in my personal capacity as a regular
ISOC member and not as a board member. The essence of my last email if
for the provision of additional information to the intellectual / policy
conversation.

On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 9:23 AM Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com> wrote:

> Caleb
> Because it is still in play, anything we do might have more impact. Which
> is why I think the board should actively consider the issue.
>
> Thanks for speaking up. I hope we hear from others.
>
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 10:13 AM Caleb Ogundele via Chapter-delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Joseph and Dave,
>>
>> I’m sharing some information in my personal capacity. Yesterday, I
>> watched Donald Trump’s interview on NBC (link:
>> https://youtu.be/b607aDHUu2I?si=NNpWK3ccTesYr8Ap&t=3991).
>>
>> During the interview, he was asked whether he would protect TikTok. He
>> acknowledged using TikTok as part of his election victory strategy with
>> youths who are major consumers of the TikTok app. While I’m no expert in
>> psychology or reading body language, Donald Trump's demeanor in that
>> interview suggested that he might consider giving TikTok a *political
>> lifeline* when he was asked if he would protect TikTok. Suppose Tiktok
>> can appeal before January 19th, just before Donald Trump is set to resume
>> office on January 20th that might likely be some action in his first 100
>> days in office to give it a political lifeline.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Caleb Ogundele
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 8:42 AM Dr. Joseph Lorenzo Hall via
>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, our amicus project intervened this past May in the Montana Tiktok
>>> case in the USA (*Alario et al, Tiktok v. Knudsen*), which was a
>>> state-level app ban of Tiktok aimed at app stores. I say "was" as the case
>>> was mooted (stopped) when the federal divestment ban law was signed.
>>>
>>> In our brief we described how this ban would undermine foundational
>>> aspects of the Internet and is technically unworkable. Dan York and John
>>> Morris published a blog post describing the case and our argument:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2024/05/montanas-tiktok-ban-breaking-the-internet-and-undermining-online-privacy/
>>>
>>> And here is the PDF of the brief itself (it should be very accessible
>>> for a legal brief, if I do say so!):
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Amicus-Brief-TikTok-v.-Knudsen_05.06.24.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> JLH, Internet Society, hall at isoc.org ( https://josephhall.org/ )
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>
>>> on behalf of Dr. Joseph Lorenzo Hall via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 9, 2024 09:07
>>> *To:* ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>; Dave
>>> Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] TikTok Ban. How should ISOC respond?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Dave,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This development is concerning, and for those legally inclined, the
>>> outcome from the Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit on Friday was a bit
>>> surprising.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (The Court upheld the underlying forced divestment law as
>>> constitutional, despite a "strict scrutiny" challenge under the First
>>> Amendment of the US Constitution. This was based on national security
>>> grounds, with the Court showing heavy deference to the government, despite
>>> the lack of public evidence regarding the dangers to national security.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition to the 2023 statement we crafted, which addresses the
>>> dangers of app and service bans more generally, you should know that we
>>> issued two strong statements in 2020 specifically regarding proposed WeChat
>>> and TikTok bans, as well as the somewhat innocently named US Clean Network
>>> program (which would have denied all interconnection in the USA with
>>> Chinese networks):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>    https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2020/internet-society-u-s-administration-ban-of-tiktok-and-wechat-is-a-direct-attack-on-the-internet/
>>>    -
>>>    https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2020/internet-society-statement-on-u-s-clean-network-program/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are closely monitoring the current situation in the USA, particularly
>>> since TikTok may appeal to the US Supreme Court. The incoming President
>>> appears inclined to "save" TikTok, but the details of how that will happen
>>> remain unclear. As the relevant ISOC leader here, think it's important to
>>> keep an eye on the technical implementation of any blocking order, as that
>>> could become complicated and is precisely where we are most concerned about
>>> unintended consequences.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m not sure it’s time for another public statement (especially about a
>>> lower court's First Amendment ruling), given that there are still many
>>> legal avenues in motion, but maybe you had other ideas in mind. We would
>>> love to hear any ideas from Chapters and our community regarding action or
>>> engagement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Joe Hall
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> JLH, Internet Society, hall at isoc.org ( https://josephhall.org/ )
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>
>>> on behalf of Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates <
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 9, 2024 02:28
>>> *To:* ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> *Subject:* [Chapter-delegates] TikTok Ban. How should ISOC respond?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 170 million Americans use TikTok, Facebook's only major international
>>> competitor. T*his is the largest Internet blockage in Western history.*
>>> The proponents—and the court—believe it is a major security problem that
>>> justifies blocking the Internet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (Because we have a strong, clear position on the issue - below - this
>>> note should have come from the Chair or CEO. But maybe it's good for the
>>> chapters to take the lead more often.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From the *Times: *TikTok Faces U.S. Ban After Losing Bid to Overturn
>>> New Law
>>> The law will ban the video app in the United States by Jan. 19 if its
>>> owner, ByteDance, does not sell it to a non-Chinese company.
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> Conveniently, we have almost nothing of substance planned at Wednesday's
>>> board meeting. We can spend several hours discussing what ISOC's policy
>>> should be.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ISOC took a strong position on this issue in 2023.
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2023/specific-app-and-service-bans-are-fragmenting-the-internet/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is it possible for the Internet Society to take action when the problem
>>> is our home country?
>>>
>>> Ted, Sally - can our pr department put together a press call on zoom to
>>> address this openly and transparently?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's our 2023 statement. It's very clear and to the point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Specific App and Service Bans are Fragmenting the Internet
>>> Increasing government actions to block or ban specific web services or
>>> applications are fragmenting the Internet.
>>>
>>> Because of how the Internet works, top-down interference with specific
>>> services and technologies on the Internet will likely damage interoperation
>>> and tend to splinter the Internet into smaller, less-connected islands.
>>>
>>> As the Internet and the services on it become more important, people
>>> increasingly depend on them. ...
>>>
>>> Some governments claim their actions are necessary for national
>>> security–when citizen use of some applications or services could lead to
>>> wide scale theft of personal data, exposure of national security assets, or
>>> creation of numerous in-country landing points for a widespread
>>> cybersecurity attack, among other risks. But the idea that these risks are
>>> somehow unique to a particular application or service is poorly founded:
>>> the same attacks could be as easily embedded in another permitted
>>> application. Since the Internet is such a flexible technology, any
>>> necessary defense of national security has to come from preventing the
>>> attacks *no matter how* they come from the Internet. National security
>>> that supposedly comes from banning a particular application is a security
>>> blanket made entirely of holes.
>>>
>>> Governments should avoid service or applications specific bans, which
>>> undermine security and access to opportunities on the world’s greatest
>>> communications resource. Instead of banning a particular platform or
>>> application based on non-technical criteria
>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7754> like country of origin
>>> or ownership, countries should be transparent about risks and raise the
>>> privacy and security standards for *all* online services and app stores
>>> to mitigate broader potential threats to critical infrastructure and
>>> services from end-user devices.
>>>
>>> -----------------------
>>>
>>> (It's particularly important for the Chair to get involved. The last
>>> time this came up was when the chapters asked ISOC to take a position on
>>> the cutoff of Internet service in Gaza and the chair was asked to comment.
>>> The board has a fiduciary responsibility it shouldn't duck.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As a Chapter Leader, you are automatically added to the Internet
>>> Society’s Chapter Leaders Community Group and the Chapter Delegates e-list.
>>> Based on ISOC’s legitimate interests to communicate with its chapter
>>> leaders, you will remain subscribed for the duration of your term and will
>>> be unsubscribed automatically when your term ends.
>>>
>>>
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>>> -
>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Caleb Ogundele*
>> Email: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> As a Chapter Leader, you are automatically added to the Internet
>> Society’s Chapter Leaders Community Group and the Chapter Delegates e-list.
>> Based on ISOC’s legitimate interests to communicate with its chapter
>> leaders, you will remain subscribed for the duration of your term and will
>> be unsubscribed automatically when your term ends.
>>
>>
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://community.internetsociety.org.
>> -
>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>
>

-- 
*Caleb Ogundele*
Email: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
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