No subject


Tue Apr 2 03:57:03 PDT 2024 

ipation in one meeting is not an end in itself but rather the beginning of =
a relationship. We had excellent, if not enthusiastic feed-back from our in=
vitees. We were also able to register a direct impact, as some of them had =
leading positions in their respective delegations in important internationa=
l meetings, such as WCIT.

This is the only structure way for the IETF to interact with government rep=
resentatives. We have found the dialogues to be useful for both sides, as i=
t deepens the understanding for the technology among policy makers and conf=
ronts the engineers with concerns governments may have. Government buy-in i=
s important and we have found this loose programme to be best adapted to th=
e IETF culture. We definitely would not recommend a GAC-type body for this =
purpose. This would not work for the IETF and would be contrary to the way =
the IETF functions. In any case,  is up to the IETF (and not ISOC) to figur=
e out how it wants to organize itself.

Government recognition of IETF standards is important for the future of the=
 Internet. This recognition may be implicit, as in a reference in a governm=
ent tender, or explicit, in a more formal legal text. As I said in my previ=
ous email, this may vary from country to country and we are interested in l=
earning from our Chapters how this issue is handled in their respective cou=
ntries.


Best regards
Markus




On Feb 26, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Elver Loho <elver.loho at gmail.com<mailto:elver.=
loho at gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,

Regarding the upcoming IETF meeting in London, then will any Estonian
policymakers be in attendance? What sort of outreach effort was made
to get policymakers to attend?

As for the issue of having national governments recognize IETF
standards, then, frankly, I'm still not entirely sure as to what sort
of recognition would qualify.

- IETF standards are, of course, referenced in public procurement
documents, but this is a pragmatic choice, not a top-down policy
dictate.
- A declaration by the cabinet or the parliament in recognition of
IETF's standards would be an empty symbolic gesture and non-binding
anyway.
- Does IETF have some membership program for representatives of local
governments? Sort of like GAC at ICANN? I am not too familiar with the
structure and practices of the IETF, but that might be a way of
getting buy-in from the governments.


Best,
Elver

elver.loho at gmail.com<mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com>
+372 5661 6933
skype: elver.loho


On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Markus Kummer <kummer at isoc.org<mailto:kum=
mer at isoc.org>> wrote:
Dear Elver, Vint, all,


Vint has explained the problem in a nutshell. Most governments adopt
standards that derive either from their national standards bodies and/or
official international standards organizations, such as ITU-T and ISO at th=
e
global level or, at the regional level, in Europe, CEN, CENELEC and ETSI.
Often, these organizations are referenced in national legislation as well a=
s
in international treaties. How this is done, varies from country to country=
.
Some governments, for instance, recognize IETF standards by reference, by
specifying RFCs in public procurement. IT We would be interested in hearing
from our Chapters whether they have any indications as to how this is
handled in their respective countries. Ultimately, it would be significant
to have governments recognize IETF standards in their national legislations=
.



As you know, ISOC takes pride in providing the institutional home of the
IETF and does its best to promote the IETF and its work. The sentence that
caught your eyes refers to our outreach to governments we have been engaged
in for the past two years. We invited policy makers to IETF meetings and
will continue to do so. At the forthcoming IETF meeting in London we will
have more than 30 policy makers from all regions, nearly a third of them
from Europe.



Best regards

Markus


From: Vint Cerf <vint at google.com<mailto:vint at google.com>>
Date: Tuesday25, February, 2014 10:56 AM
To: Elver Loho <elver.loho at gmail.com<mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com>>
Cc: Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org<mailto:chapter-del=
egates at elists.isoc.org>>

Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] The European offensive

some governments only recognize standards from national or treaty-like
organizations. They won't specify the use of other standards from private
sector organizations. I think this was just an offer to make known the IETF
work and the widespread voluntary adoption of its recommendations.

v



On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Elver Loho <elver.loho at gmail.com<mailto:e=
lver.loho at gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,

I stumbled upon this document in one of ISOC's newsletters:

http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/europe-bureau-public-policy/2014/02/eur=
opean-commissions-position-future-internet-governance

In it there is this sentence: "The Internet Society stands ready to
assist European authorities to familiarize themselves with the work of
the IETF and calls on European governments to recognize IETF
standards."

What is meant by this? How would a government formally recognize
technical standards? Because if something sensible was meant by this
sentence, then it could be a task for the local EU chapters.

Best,
Elver
.ee

elver.loho at gmail.com<mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com>
+372 5661 6933
skype: elver.loho
_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org




--_000_F5EFE624CB2749199760932B238F5B78isocorg_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <696208A9493E22459513CDA72AA99C12 at namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body class=3D"ApplePlainTextBody" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-=
nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>Hi, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We started inviting government representatives to IETF meeting two yea=
rs ago. To begin with, we focused on policy makers from developing countrie=
s, either delegates we had identified in ITU meetings or  people ident=
ified by our Regional Bureau Directors.
 Apart from attending regular IETF meetings, they participate in special se=
ssions we organise for them. We usually ask them in advance what they are i=
nterested in and set up special sessions around these issues. As we noticed=
 that there was also great interest
 from policy makers from Europe and North America and we also invited peopl=
e from these regions. The European Commission encouraged the member of thei=
r High Level Group on Internet Governance to attend the IETF meeting and af=
ter their last session in February
 several members from that group indicated their interest to participate. T=
here is nobody from Estonia among them but you are more than welcome to rea=
ch out to policy makers in your country and get them interested. </div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From a humble beginning two years ago, this programme has expanded and=
 next week we will have more than 30 policy makers attending the meeting. P=
articipation in one meeting is not an end in itself but rather the beginnin=
g of a relationship. We had excellent,
 if not enthusiastic feed-back from our invitees. We were also able to regi=
ster a direct impact, as some of them had leading positions in their respec=
tive delegations in important international meetings, such as WCIT.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is the only structure way for the IETF to interact with governmen=
t representatives. We have found the dialogues to be useful for both sides,=
 as it deepens the understanding for the technology among policy makers and=
 confronts the engineers with concerns
 governments may have. Government buy-in is important and we have found thi=
s loose programme to be best adapted to the IETF culture. We definitely wou=
ld not recommend a GAC-type body for this purpose. This would not=
 work for the IETF and would be contrary to
 the way the IETF functions. In any case,  is up to the IETF (and=
 not ISOC) to figure out how it wants to organize itself.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Government recognition of IETF standards is important for the future o=
f the Internet. This recognition may be implicit, as in a reference in a go=
vernment tender, or explicit, in a more formal legal text. As I said in my =
previous email, this may vary from
 country to country and we are interested in learning from our Chapters how=
 this issue is handled in their respective countries.</div>
<div><br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
Markus<br>
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true"><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"AppleOriginalContents">
<div>On Feb 26, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Elver Loho <<a href=3D"mailto:elver.lo=
ho at gmail.com">elver.loho at gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">Hi all,<br>
<br>
Regarding the upcoming IETF meeting in London, then will any Estonian<br>
policymakers be in attendance? What sort of outreach effort was made<br>
to get policymakers to attend?<br>
<br>
As for the issue of having national governments recognize IETF<br>
standards, then, frankly, I'm still not entirely sure as to what sort<br>
of recognition would qualify.<br>
<br>
- IETF standards are, of course, referenced in public procurement<br>
documents, but this is a pragmatic choice, not a top-down policy<br>
dictate.<br>
- A declaration by the cabinet or the parliament in recognition of<br>
IETF's standards would be an empty symbolic gesture and non-binding<br>
anyway.<br>
- Does IETF have some membership program for representatives of local<br>
governments? Sort of like GAC at ICANN? I am not too familiar with the<br>
structure and practices of the IETF, but that might be a way of<br>
getting buy-in from the governments.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Elver<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com">elver.loho at gmail.com</a><br>
+372 5661 6933<br>
skype: elver.loho<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Markus Kummer <<a href=3D"mailto:kumme=
r at isoc.org">kummer at isoc.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">Dear Elver, Vint, all,<br>
<br>
<br>
Vint has explained the problem in a nutshell. Most governments adopt<br>
standards that derive either from their national standards bodies and/or<br=
>
official international standards organizations, such as ITU-T and ISO at th=
e<br>
global level or, at the regional level, in Europe, CEN, CENELEC and ETSI.<b=
r>
Often, these organizations are referenced in national legislation as well a=
s<br>
in international treaties. How this is done, varies from country to country=
.<br>
Some governments, for instance, recognize IETF standards by reference, by<b=
r>
specifying RFCs in public procurement. IT We would be interested in hearing=
<br>
from our Chapters whether they have any indications as to how this is<br>
handled in their respective countries. Ultimately, it would be significant<=
br>
to have governments recognize IETF standards in their national legislations=
.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
As you know, ISOC takes pride in providing the institutional home of the<br=
>
IETF and does its best to promote the IETF and its work. The sentence that<=
br>
caught your eyes refers to our outreach to governments we have been engaged=
<br>
in for the past two years. We invited policy makers to IETF meetings and<br=
>
will continue to do so. At the forthcoming IETF meeting in London we will<b=
r>
have more than 30 policy makers from all regions, nearly a third of them<br=
>
from Europe.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Markus<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Vint Cerf <<a href=3D"mailto:vint at google.com">vint at google.com</a>&=
gt;<br>
Date: Tuesday25, February, 2014 10:56 AM<br>
To: Elver Loho <<a href=3D"mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com">elver.loho at gmail=
.com</a>><br>
Cc: Chapter Delegates <<a href=3D"mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.o=
rg">chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] The European offensive<br>
<br>
some governments only recognize standards from national or treaty-like<br>
organizations. They won't specify the use of other standards from private<b=
r>
sector organizations. I think this was just an offer to make known the IETF=
<br>
work and the widespread voluntary adoption of its recommendations.<br>
<br>
v<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Elver Loho <<a href=3D"mailto:elver.lo=
ho at gmail.com">elver.loho at gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
I stumbled upon this document in one of ISOC's newsletters:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/europe-bureau-public-policy/=
2014/02/european-commissions-position-future-internet-governance">http://ww=
w.internetsociety.org/blog/europe-bureau-public-policy/2014/02/european-com=
missions-position-future-internet-governance</a><br>
<br>
In it there is this sentence: "The Internet Society stands ready to<br=
>
assist European authorities to familiarize themselves with the work of<br>
the IETF and calls on European governments to recognize IETF<br>
standards."<br>
<br>
What is meant by this? How would a government formally recognize<br>
technical standards? Because if something sensible was meant by this<br>
sentence, then it could be a task for the local EU chapters.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Elver<br>
.ee<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com">elver.loho at gmail.com</a><br>
+372 5661 6933<br>
skype: elver.loho<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society<br>
Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href=3D"https://portal.isoc.org">https://portal.is=
oc.org</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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