[Chapter-delegates] Digital sovreignty and splinternet

[Tom Fredrik Blenning]

Dear Richard,

I just wanted to correct the record. You're making quite a sweeping 
statement about Europe here. There is nothing close to a consensus on 
the ban of Nazi symbols across Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Nazi_symbols

Best,
Tom Fredrik

On 26/05/2022 16:56, Richard Hill via Chapter-delegates wrote:
> Dear Ted,
> 
> Unfortunately, national laws are such that content which is legal in 
> some places is not legal elsewhere (e.g. selling Nazi memorabilia is 
> legal in the US, but not in Europe). So entities may have to take steps 
> to restrict access to content in some jurisdictions. This was first 
> litigated in 2000, see:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LICRA_v._Yahoo 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LICRA_v._Yahoo>!
> 
> This does not violate the UDHR or the ICCPR, because certain 
> restrictions on speech are allowed under international law (in 
> particular, restrictions on hate speech).
> 
> Best,
> 
> Richard
> 
> *From:*Ted Hardie [mailto:ted.ietf at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, 26 May 2022 16:46
> *To:* Richard Hill
> *Cc:* ISOC Chapters
> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Digital sovreignty and splinternet
> 
> "The Internet is borderless by design" is shorthand for a set of 
> technical characteristics of the communications enabled by the 
> Internet.  A slightly less shorthand version might be that if we define 
> the Internet as the reflexive set of network nodes which are reachable 
> by IP, we can observe that this set is not congruent with or affected by 
> national borders.  The corollary is that any node reachable by IP can 
> offer resources or services to any or all other nodes without regard to 
> those same borders.  That insight is what makes the World Wide Web 
> world-wide; if you have a browser and can identify the right node, you 
> can get the resource from anywhere.
> 
> Digital sovereignty does not change this technical characteristic, but 
> creates a regime in which specific services must be sourced within 
> specific regions (mostly national but sometimes at the level of 
> supranational region).  If I could access a resource currently offered 
> in the Netherlands but the provider must offer it to me in Portugal, the 
> service can no longer take advantage of the Internet's characteristics.
> 
> Carried to its extreme, this results in a splintering of the reflexive 
> set of network nodes reachable by IP into a number of subsets.  Each 
> subset has nodes using the same technology,  but they are no longer able 
> to provide or access services to all the other nodes. "Splinternet" is 
> the very short shorthand for this condition.
> 
> Whatever the shorthand, the result is bad both for the network and for 
> its users.  At its most extreme, it could be read as a violation of 
> Article 12 and/or Article 20 of the Universal Declaration of Human 
> Rights 
> <https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights>.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Ted Hardie
> 
> On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 11:08 PM Richard Hill via Chapter-delegates 
> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org 
> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
> 
>     I refer to this post which was recently brought to our attention:
> 
>     https://www.internetsociety.org/action-plan/2022/digital-sovereignty/ <https://www.internetsociety.org/action-plan/2022/digital-sovereignty/>
> 
> 
>     I’m puzzled by this bit: “The Internet is borderless by design.”
> 
>     All telecommunications are designed to facilitate cross-border
>     communications flows. In fact, the ITU was created in 1865 precisely
>     to facilitate the cross-border flow of telegrams, and subsequently
>     facilitated the cross-border flow of other forms of telecommunication.
> 
>     While base telecommunication protocols (e.g. TCP/IP) are indeed
>     designed to be borderless, the physical facilities that implement
>     the protocols, and that provide services based on the protocols, are
>     subject to national law, for example criminal law, copyright law,
>     etc. (Recall that offline law applies equally online.)
> 
>     In addition, there may be telecommunications-specific regulation.
>     Traditionally, those were heavy, and, in many jurisdictions,
>     provided that only state-owned or authorized monopolies could
>     provide certain services.
> 
>     That ended in the 1980’s, with the introduction of liberalization
>     and privatization.  But certain specific laws still exist. For
>     example, in the US, CDA 230 creates a liability regime for certain
>     Internet services that is specific to the Internet.
> 
>     Names and addresses were traditionally assigned on a national basis,
>     and this was carried over in the domain name system in the form of
>     the ccTLDs. However, in keeping with the tenets of privatization,
>     most ccTLDs are not state-owned, and in keeping with the tenets of
>     deregulation, many ccTLDs are not regulated.
> 
>     IP addresses are handled differently: they are assigned on a
>     regional basis.
> 
>     And Internet routing is not based on national borders.
> 
>     Here is a more detailed discussion:
> 
>     http://www.apig.ch/Internet%203-characteristics.doc
>     <http://www.apig.ch/Internet%203-characteristics.doc>
> 
>     But the most important difference regarding the Internet is its
>     funding model for many services: monetization of personal data
>     through targeted advertising. This has had some unwanted
>     side-effects, see for example:
> 
>     http://boundary2.org/2015/04/08/the-internet-vs-democracy/
>     <http://boundary2.org/2015/04/08/the-internet-vs-democracy/>
> 
>     http://www.boundary2.org/2018/02/richard-hill-knots-of-statelike-power-review-of-harcourt-exposed-desire-and-disobedience-in-the-digital-age/
>     <http://www.boundary2.org/2018/02/richard-hill-knots-of-statelike-power-review-of-harcourt-exposed-desire-and-disobedience-in-the-digital-age/>
> 
> 
>     http://www.boundary2.org/2018/10/richard-hill-too-big-to-be-review-of-wu-the-curse-of-bigness-antitrust-in-the-new-gilded-age/
>     <http://www.boundary2.org/2018/10/richard-hill-too-big-to-be-review-of-wu-the-curse-of-bigness-antitrust-in-the-new-gilded-age/>
> 
> 
>     http://www.boundary2.org/2021/04/richard-hill-the-curse-of-concentration-review-of-cory-doctorow-how-to-destroy-surveillance-capitalism/
>     <http://www.boundary2.org/2021/04/richard-hill-the-curse-of-concentration-review-of-cory-doctorow-how-to-destroy-surveillance-capitalism/>
> 
> 
>     **
> 
>     Since the Internet now underpins most aspects of our lives and
>     economic activities, it seems to me inevitable that governments will
>     evaluate whether they should be more involved in its governance
>     (e.g. by enacting data privacy laws, and/or by enforcing anti-trust
>     law).
> 
>     Obviously there is a risk (and not just in non-democratic states)
>     that government intervention could have unwanted side-effects. So it
>     seems to me that it is important to provide information to
>     governments that will enable them to make sensible decisions.
> 
>     Regarding the specific issue of splintering, I fear that it’s not
>     just the Internet that might splinter, but the world as a whole. I
>     fear that we are moving to a new version of the Cold War which some
>     of us are old enough to have lived through.
> 
>     Best,
> 
>     Richard
> 
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