[Chapter-delegates] Question about Chapter-Delegates list archives

Keith Besgrove keith.besgrove at gmail.com
Thu Jul 23 05:04:48 PDT 2020 

I never post to this list as a normal rule. But I just wanted to retiterate everything that my chair has just said in his post below. The avalanche of these emails is sometimes of interest but frequently less so, and there is often an awful lot of it.

Regards

Keith Besgrove
Vice Chair
Internet Australia

Sent from my iPad

> On 23 Jul 2020, at 5:05 pm, Paul Brooks via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 23/07/2020 8:50 am, Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Whatever the history and intent of delegates, ISOC's problem is too little communication among chapters and members, not too much. 
> Yes - but we all (well, many) have day jobs, and already spend most of our days glued to day-job-email. Won't speak for others, but the last thing I want to do when I get home to the family is spend my evenings clearing volunteering-email out as well.
> 
> 
>> We definitely should include all chapter board members, as has been the practice for years in many cases.
>> Only a handful of threads here are started by group members, so that doesn't result in an overload in our mailbox. Most of the volume is ISOC announcements.
> The flood of 16 or more messages in this thread alone overnight that greeted me this morning, plus the past days dozens about bank accounts etc, would suggest otherwise. In our chapter's case, general non-exec board members usually request fairly quickly to be taken off the list due to the email-floods that break out, and I de-list them as named chapter reps 'Board Directors' in AMS to action this. It generally only the four or five executive office-bearers who remain on this list.
> 
> It might be different if the topics of discussion were actually whats happening with chapters in different territories, but so much of it is internal administrivia and omphaloskepsis. Necessary, important and vital internal administrivia to be sure, but our non-exec directors interested in high-level governance of the chapter would anticipate getting a summary email from one of the office-bearers if anything came up that was relevant to our particular chapter anyway.
> 
> On the original topic of the question, I think it is important to have a 'safe space' away from quoting journalists to discuss internal arrangements. I prefer the term 'private' than 'secret', but a private space assists people feel comfortable asking and answering and contributing to sensitive discussions. Like the making of sausages, openness and transparency of process is important for confidence in the result, but that doesn't mean every utterance needs to be exposed.
> 
> Paul.
> -- 
> Paul Brooks
> Chair, Internet Australia
> paul.brooks at internet.org.au
> https://www.internet.org.au
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:35 PM Alfredo Calderon via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>> Dear Christine:
>>> 
>>> Eduardo makes a valid observation. The members of the list does not agree with the definition you provide. I understood that it was for the designated 'delegates' of each Chapter/SIG.  I am starting to believe that the whole purpose of this list has been "lost".
>>> 
>>> Can someone clearly, what was/is the charter/mission/agenda of this group?
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 	
>>>> Alfredo Calderon
>>>> eLearning Consultant 
>>>> calderon.alfredo at gmail.com |http://aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com | Skype: Alfredo_1212| wiseintro.co/alfredocalderon
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Get your own email signature
>>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Then the list should be renamed to: Chapter-Officers.
>>>> 
>>>> -ed
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:55 AM Christine Saegesser via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Greg, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Chapter “Leaders” on the Chapter-Delegates list are all persons listed as “Chapter Officers” in the Chapter Portal. For some Chapters, these are the President, Secretary, Treasurer, ChAC representative, etc., some others also include the members of their Boards. As the terminology for these positions varies across regions, countries and languages, we’re using the term “Officer” in the Chapter Portal. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is thus the list of “Officers” as defined by each Chapter/SIG that is synched onto the “Chapter-Delegates” list. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I hope this helps. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Christine 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 22. Jul 2020, at 16:34, Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm curious to know what the definition of "Chapter Leader" is, and whether there is (or should be) a different definition of "Chapter Delegate." 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If there are "over 110 Chapters" and SIGs as stated on the ISOC website, that implies that there are, on average, 7+ Leaders/Delegates for each Chapter/SIG. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does that reflect the intent and purpose of this list?  Thanks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Greg Shatan | President, ISOC-NY
>>>>>> greg at isoc-ny.org 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "The Internet is for everyone"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:33 AM Christine Saegesser via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As to the question about how many members there are on the Chapter-Delegates list: there are currently 877 members, including all current Chapter and SIG Leaders, as well as some ISOC staff and Board members. The number of members on this list depends on the number of current Chapter/SIG officers listed at any given time by the Chapters via the Chapter Portal. The list is kept in synch with the offers listed there. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To your question Alfredo, we are not sure on what basis this decision was taken in 2009, but it is quite possible that this change happened by accident as others have mentioned on the list. We have therefore set it back to the original intended status, but would like to get a sense of what the list members’ preference is via the poll here: https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Christine 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 22. Jul 2020, at 14:13, Alfredo Calderon via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I actually agree with Veni. The strangest thing is how come 1,000 delegates (as cited) are on the list. Is it not suppose to be updated based on the “actual-active” delegates per chapter. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> When and why was it changed from private to public? I believe that gors against the whole purpose of the list.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Even if the idea is to become a “transparent” organization, some business needs to be carried-out in an environment that then allows the group to organize ideas that will be shared in a coherent and “consensus way” to the ISOC community.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My 2 cents!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Alfredo Calderon
>>>>>>>> Email: calderon.alfredo at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> Twitter: acalderon52
>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: pr.linkedin.com/in/acalderon52
>>>>>>>> Skype: alfredo_1212
>>>>>>>> Business Card: http://myonepage.com/acalderon
>>>>>>>> Blog: aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 8:01 AM, Judith Hellerstein via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Veni
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I agree with you. It should remain private. Possibly it was made public by accident 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best 
>>>>>>>>> Judith 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> Judith at jhellerstein.com
>>>>>>>>> Skype ID:Judithhellerstein 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 7:29 AM, Veni Markovski via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Over a thousand people? Christine, aren’t the chapter delegates a smaller number?
>>>>>>>>>> As to the “secrecy”, Dave, I see this more about question of trust among ourselves, rather than a secrecy issue. Given the fact some people put names, addresses and phones in their emails, it could be also a GDPR issue, if it’s published on ISOC website. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If it was started as a private list, it shouldn’t have been changed to a public one. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 07:17 Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Something emailed to over a thousand people cannot be kept secret, so this restriction makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The last two CEO's of ISOC declared our work should be transparent. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Let's live up to that and only keep secret that which absolutely must be secret. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I can't even find out who our donors are, although I know several of them benefit from our policy advocacy.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Makes us look like Astroturf. Good reporters will question our work.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:47 AM Christine Saegesser via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of you may have seen a question that came up on the Internet-Policy list concerning the archive of the Chapter-Delegates list (see: https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/chapter-delegates/). 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’d like to follow-up here and share some background, but also get a sense of what the preference of the list members is: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Background: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Chapter-Delegates list is a list that was created for current Internet Society Chapter leaders to have a place to get information relevant to their Chapter, to their leadership positions and a place for them to discuss and share issues pertinent to the Internet Society Chapter community. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list was intended to be a private discussion place for current leaders only and has been set up like that in 2005. The archive was therefore also private to current list members.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was brought to our attention that the list archive was made public in 2009. We are not sure on what basis this decision was taken at the time and have therefore set it back to the original intended status.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Question: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a list that is there for all of you to use and we’d thus like to hear what the preference of the list members is with regards to keeping the list archives private (to the list members) as opposed to making them public. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please add your answer to that question by clicking on this link before 30 July: https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christine 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>>>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Editor, https://Fastnet.news https://wirelessone.news 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply "sub" for a free subscription to Fast Net News and Wireless One
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Veni Markovski
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.veni.com
>>>>>>>>>>> pgp: 5BA1366E veni at veni.com 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The opinions expressed above are those of the author, 
>>>>>>>>>>> not of any organizations, associated with or related to 
>>>>>>>>>>> the author in any given way. 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>>>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Reply "sub" for a free subscription to Fast Net News and Wireless One
>> 
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>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
> 
> -- 
> Paul Brooks
> Chair, Internet Australia
> paul.brooks at internet.org.au
> mobile +61414366605
> https://www.internet.org.au
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
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