[Chapter-delegates] Question about Chapter-Delegates list archives

Thu Jul 23 00:10:55 PDT 2020

I clearly am outvoted and will respect the privacy desire.

Paul My Gmail puts the storm you are dealing with at the end of a thread
that doesn't bother me at all. Worth looking for something similar if you
are not already using.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 3:05 AM Paul Brooks via Chapter-delegates <
chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> On 23/07/2020 8:50 am, Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates wrote:
>
>
>
> Whatever the history and intent of delegates, ISOC's problem is too little
> communication among chapters and members, not too much.
>
> Yes - but we all (well, many) have day jobs, and already spend most of our
> days glued to day-job-email. Won't speak for others, but the last thing I
> want to do when I get home to the family is spend my evenings clearing
> volunteering-email out as well.
>
> We definitely should include all chapter board members, as has been the
> practice for years in many cases.
>
> Only a handful of threads here are started by group members, so that
> doesn't result in an overload in our mailbox. Most of the volume is ISOC
> announcements.
>
> The flood of 16 or more messages in this thread alone overnight that
> greeted me this morning, plus the past days dozens about bank accounts etc,
> would suggest otherwise. In our chapter's case, general non-exec board
> members usually request fairly quickly to be taken off the list due to the
> email-floods that break out, and I de-list them as named chapter reps
> 'Board Directors' in AMS to action this. It generally only the four or five
> executive office-bearers who remain on this list.
>
> It might be different if the topics of discussion were actually whats
> happening with chapters in different territories, but so much of it is
> internal administrivia and omphaloskepsis. Necessary, important and vital
> internal administrivia to be sure, but our non-exec directors interested in
> high-level governance of the chapter would anticipate getting a summary
> email from one of the office-bearers if anything came up that was relevant
> to our particular chapter anyway.
>
> On the original topic of the question, I think it is important to have a
> 'safe space' away from quoting journalists to discuss internal
> arrangements. I prefer the term 'private' than 'secret', but a private
> space assists people feel comfortable asking and answering and contributing
> to sensitive discussions. Like the making of sausages, openness and
> transparency of process is important for confidence in the result, but that
> doesn't mean every utterance needs to be exposed.
> Paul.
>
> --
> Paul Brooks
> Chair, Internet Australiapaul.brooks at internet.org.auhttps://www.internet.org.au
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:35 PM Alfredo Calderon via Chapter-delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Christine:
>>
>> Eduardo makes a valid observation. The members of the list does not agree
>> with the definition you provide. I understood that it was for the
>> designated 'delegates' of each Chapter/SIG.  I am starting to believe that
>> the whole purpose of this list has been "lost".
>>
>> Can someone clearly, what was/is the charter/mission/agenda of this group?
>>
>> [image: photo]
>>
>> *Alfredo Calderon*
>> eLearning Consultant
>>
>> calderon.alfredo at gmail.com |http://aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com
>>  | Skype: Alfredo_1212| wiseintro.co/alfredocalderon
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <
>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Then the list should be renamed to: Chapter-Officers.
>>
>> -ed
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:55 AM Christine Saegesser via
>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>> The Chapter “Leaders” on the Chapter-Delegates list are all persons
>>> listed as “Chapter Officers” in the Chapter Portal. For some Chapters,
>>> these are the President, Secretary, Treasurer, ChAC representative, etc.,
>>> some others also include the members of their Boards. As the terminology
>>> for these positions varies across regions, countries and languages, we’re
>>> using the term “Officer” in the Chapter Portal.
>>>
>>> It is thus the list of “Officers” as defined by each Chapter/SIG that is
>>> synched onto the “Chapter-Delegates” list.
>>>
>>> I hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Christine
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22. Jul 2020, at 16:34, Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm curious to know what the definition of "Chapter Leader" is, and
>>> whether there is (or should be) a different definition of "Chapter
>>> Delegate."
>>>
>>> If there are "over 110 Chapters" and SIGs as stated on the ISOC website,
>>> that implies that there are, on average, 7+ Leaders/Delegates for each
>>> Chapter/SIG.
>>>
>>> Does that reflect the intent and purpose of this list?  Thanks!
>>>
>>> Greg
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *Greg Shatan | President, ISOC-NY*
>>> greg at isoc-ny.org
>>>
>>>
>>> *"The Internet is for everyone"*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:33 AM Christine Saegesser via
>>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> As to the question about how many members there are on the
>>>> Chapter-Delegates list: there are currently 877 members, including all
>>>> current Chapter and SIG Leaders, as well as some ISOC staff and Board
>>>> members. The number of members on this list depends on the number of
>>>> current Chapter/SIG officers listed at any given time by the Chapters via
>>>> the Chapter Portal. The list is kept in synch with the offers listed there.
>>>>
>>>> To your question Alfredo, we are not sure on what basis this decision
>>>> was taken in 2009, but it is quite possible that this change happened by
>>>> accident as others have mentioned on the list. We have therefore set it
>>>> back to the original intended status, but would like to get a sense of what
>>>> the list members’ preference is via the poll here:
>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Christine
>>>>
>>>> On 22. Jul 2020, at 14:13, Alfredo Calderon via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I actually agree with Veni. The strangest thing is how come 1,000
>>>> delegates (as cited) are on the list. Is it not suppose to be updated based
>>>> on the “actual-active” delegates per chapter.
>>>>
>>>> When and why was it changed from private to public? I believe that gors
>>>> against the whole purpose of the list.
>>>>
>>>> Even if the idea is to become a “transparent” organization, some
>>>> business needs to be carried-out in an environment that then allows the
>>>> group to organize ideas that will be shared in a coherent and “consensus
>>>> way” to the ISOC community.
>>>>
>>>> My 2 cents!
>>>>
>>>> Alfredo Calderon
>>>> Email: calderon.alfredo at gmail.com <calderon.alfredo at gmail.com>
>>>> Twitter: acalderon52
>>>> LinkedIn: pr.linkedin.com/in/acalderon52
>>>> Skype: alfredo_1212
>>>> Business Card: http://myonepage.com/acalderon
>>>> Blog: aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 8:01 AM, Judith Hellerstein via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Veni
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you. It should remain private. Possibly it was made public
>>>> by accident
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Judith
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> Judith at jhellerstein.com
>>>> Skype ID:Judithhellerstein
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 7:29 AM, Veni Markovski via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Over a thousand people? Christine, aren’t the chapter delegates a
>>>> smaller number?
>>>> As to the “secrecy”, Dave, I see this more about question of trust
>>>> among ourselves, rather than a secrecy issue. Given the fact some people
>>>> put names, addresses and phones in their emails, it could be also a GDPR
>>>> issue, if it’s published on ISOC website.
>>>>
>>>> If it was started as a private list, it shouldn’t have been changed to
>>>> a public one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 07:17 Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates <
>>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Christine
>>>>>
>>>>> Something emailed to over a thousand people cannot be kept secret, so
>>>>> this restriction makes no sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> The last two CEO's of ISOC declared our work should be transparent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's live up to that and only keep secret that which absolutely must
>>>>> be secret.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't even find out who our donors are, although I know several of
>>>>> them benefit from our policy advocacy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes us look like Astroturf. Good reporters will question our work.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:47 AM Christine Saegesser via
>>>>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of you may have seen a question that came up on the
>>>>>> Internet-Policy list concerning the archive of the Chapter-Delegates list
>>>>>> (see: https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/chapter-delegates/).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’d like to follow-up here and share some background, but also get a
>>>>>> sense of what the preference of the list members is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Background: *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Chapter-Delegates list is a list that was created for current
>>>>>> Internet Society Chapter leaders to have a place to get information
>>>>>> relevant to their Chapter, to their leadership positions and a place for
>>>>>> them to discuss and share issues pertinent to the Internet Society Chapter
>>>>>> community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The list was intended to be a private discussion place for current
>>>>>> leaders only and has been set up like that in 2005. The archive was
>>>>>> therefore also private to current list members.
>>>>>> It was brought to our attention that the list archive was made public
>>>>>> in 2009. We are not sure on what basis this decision was taken at the time
>>>>>> and have therefore set it back to the original intended status.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Question: *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a list that is there for all of you to use and we’d thus like
>>>>>> to hear what the preference of the list members is with regards to keeping
>>>>>> the list archives private (to the list members) as opposed to making them
>>>>>> public.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please add your answer to that question by clicking on this link
>>>>>> before 30 July: https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>> subscribed
>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Veni Markovski
>>>> http://www.veni.com
>>>> pgp: 5BA1366E veni at veni.com
>>>>
>>>> The opinions expressed above are those of the author,
>>>> not of any organizations, associated with or related to
>>>> the author in any given way.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
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>>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>
>
> --
> Paul Brooks
> Chair, Internet Australiapaul.brooks at internet.org.au
> mobile +61414366605https://www.internet.org.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
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