[Chapter-delegates] New board members and why the challenge to IP is freaking serious

Wed Apr 29 07:32:41 PDT 2020

Hi everyone!
Dave, I would like to share my experience on it just because it meet your
voice here.
Last September, my FG in ITU accomplished a meeting in ITU.
>From this meeting was very clear that we should to grow a voice there
whether we want keep the access internet free, broad, inclusive.
For the agenda of  this meeting, all members selected my paper due to a
content that I brought was relevant. Thus, I was invited as a Speaker
representative to ITU- UN.
A Chinese Company sent a member as the Speaker too.
So, I was a Speaker and another americans too.
But the chinese representative didn't respect the time and they was talking
forever.
Result: just the Chair and the Chinese Company was talking and the others
was postponed to a next meeting.
But the next meeting never happened.
Is so clear that you are hight: we should improve our voice there or we
will see all subjects about INTERNET and efforts from Vint Cerf is going
down very soon.
Rules is rules. Law is Law. And principles will keep it stand up.
I agree that Internet Society should go there stronger and more assertive
for accomplishing our mission such as the By law.
Greetings to everyone
Andrea Romaoli

On Tue, Apr 28, 2020, 6:47 PM Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates <
chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> Folks
>
> Apologies A mail problem blocked an earlier draft last week and I see Olaf
> and Hascall are jumping in already.
> https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2020/discussion-paper-an-analysis-of-the-new-ip-proposal-to-the-itu-t/
>
> The new board members are George Sadowsky, (US, independent) Ndeye
> Maimouna Diop (Senegal, SONATEL),  Ted Hardie  (US, Google), and  Laura
> Thomson (U.S., Fastly).   All are respected in Internet circles. We all
> know ISOC needs major change to deliver what we believe in. I hope the new
> board members will be very strong. I've moved a note with Hardie's and Jeri
> Arkko's thoughtful work on "Protocol Development" (essentially, the future
> of the IETF) to a separate email.
> ----------------------
> I'm very glad to see Olaf and Hascall are addressing the European Non-IP
> Networking
> and the Chinese New IP at length in a sensible manner in their new
> submission. That's great.
>
> We should not underestimate the long term consequences. Besides the ITU,
> the powerful European telcos at ETSI are advancing a similar proposal under
> the title Non-IP Networking. I've pasted in the ETSI announcement. Note
> ETSI and the key wireless group 3GPP overlap.
>
> What's going on is the telcos, yet again, are trying to assert control of
> everything. They say that is more efficient. They also claim controlling
> everything will allow end-to-end quality of service and remarkable new
> things.
>
> Most of us believe that's garbage and against our description of the
> Internet. I'm actually on the ITU Focus Group 2030 and I know the voice of
> the non-telco, non-government sector is almost invisible.
>
> Opinion:
>
> This is the old debate of Bellheads vs Netheads, but with the giant
> international telcos more visible than the Americans. The issues are
> similar, and those wanting telcos in control have strong backing from
> (parts of) major governments.
>
> China Mobile & Huawei are only a small part of the story. The Europeans
> will have strong support from all the major vendors. China's official MIIT
> joined the telco proposals.
>
> In other words, this is serious. It will be tied up in the discussion for
> years but something will eventually go through unless the community gets
> actively involved.
>
> There are many people here - not just Vint - far more qualified than I am
> to point out the high price of undercutting IP. It's proven resilient for
> 40 years. IETF is even looking at tools for more deterministic connections.
>
> Everything I know says that more network control will drastically add to
> costs and probably won't work. (See David Isenberg and Henning Schulzrinne.)
>
> We can and should make these statements strongly in a way people can hear.
> To be effective, we must be where the standards will be set, not just the
> IETF. *We must avoid letting this become a sideshow of the U.S. vs China
> debate, because we will lose.   *
>
> We should probably have a dozen people active at ITU on this and
> coordinate with ETSI. ISOC is an ITU member and the Secretary-General a
> while back reminded us we could involve as many as we like. (The U.S. and
> China send 100 to some meetings.) He urged us to do so.
> ISOC discussed credentialling our more experienced members, but a staffer
> shut it down because of fears members would not properly support the ISOC
> position.
>
> ETSI's standards lead confirmed to me they would like ISOC to play a
> strong role. This should be where we support multi-stakeholder standards.
> (Also, 3GPP & IEEE 802.) Like IETF, they all have a role.
> ----------------
> We go to the big ITU meetings where nothing ever happens because each big
> country has an effective veto. There is action at the Study Groups on
> almost everything we care about, as Elizabeth's well done WTSA paper
> explains. https://isoc.app.box.com/s/cr2su0kwv4adqtirqxtboz2qz6ol9ax6
>
> Andrew, Olaf We have at least a dozen members in the chapters who have
> strong experience in standards. How can we put together a rapid-acting,
> multi-stakeholder group inside ISOC. There's no way we effectively can
> tackle this stuff without far more than a handful of staff.
> --------------------
> Years ago, the U.S. made some similar proposals for central control of the
> networks as part of "Next Generation" networks with strong support from
> Cisco & the three-letter agencies. I questioned at ITAC the central
> control. I was told not to waste my time. It was supported by entities far
> more powerful than the State Department.  (Even before Snowden, it was easy
> to see things.)
>
> Control actually became the defining priniciple of the 5G Core network, to
> the point some people believe it will destroy Net Neutrality. (I don't
> think that's inevitable.)
>
> One way to understand the ETSI and Chinese proposals is that they are
> bringing the 5G core control tools to the interconnection with the rest of
> the Internet. *FT *reported "New IP" as a Chinese attempt to take over
> and censor the Internet. This is uninformed. China has no need for ITU
> standards to control the Internet in China, their main political goal.
>
> Time for ISOC to think about how we can do more and make a difference.
>
> ETSI is the primary European standards group and the most powerful outside
> China. It is totally industry dominated, like 3GPP. The public interest
> needs to be represented.
>
> ETSI LAUNCHES NEW GROUP ON NON-IP NETWORKING ADDRESSING 5G NEW SERVICES
>
> *Sophia Antipolis, 7 April 2020*
>
> ETSI is pleased to announce the creation of a new Industry Specification
> Group addressing Non-IP Networking (ISG NIN
> <https://www.etsi.org/technologies/non-ip-networking>). The
> kick-off-meeting took place on 25 March and John Grant, BSI, was elected as
> the ISG Chair, and Kevin Smith, Vodafone, was elected as ISG Vice Chair.
>
> With the increasing challenges placed on modern networks to support new
> use cases and greater connectivity, Service Providers are looking for
> candidate technologies that may serve their needs better than the
> TCP/IP-based networking used in current systems.
>
> ISG NIN intends to develop standards that define technologies to make more
> efficient use of capacity, have security by design, and provide lower
> latency for live media.
>
> In 2015, several mobile operators identified problems with the
> TCP/IP-based technology used in 4G. These included the complex and
> inefficient use of spectrum resulting from adding mobility, security,
> quality-of-service, and other features to a protocol that was never
> designed for them. The subsequent fixes and workarounds designed to
> overcome these problems themselves incur increased cost, latency, and
> greater power-consumption. TCP/IP was therefore deemed as non-optimal for
> the more advanced 5G services.
>
> An ETSI Industry Specification Group on Next Generation Protocols (ISG
> NGP), created in 2015, had the mission to analyse these problems and
> suggest alternative solutions. ISG NGP identified candidate technologies
> that would address the issues directly, dramatically reducing header sizes,
> per-packet processing, and latency experienced by live media, while
> remaining compatible with the current Internet and with newer technologies
> such as SDN and MPLS. ISG NGP also published a set of Key Performance
> Indicators
> <https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_gs/NGP/001_099/012/01.01.01_60/gs_NGP012v010101p.pdf> that
> allow an objective assessment of the ability of networking protocols to
> meet operators’ needs.
>
> Today, we see the evolution of ISG NGP in a new group dedicated to the
> specification of alternative technologies to better serve the new 5G
> applications, as well as being more efficient and easier to manage, with
> lower CapEx and OpEx, when used for current applications.
>
> It is expected that the work of ISG NIN will be applicable initially to
> private mobile networks such as factory automation, and then expanded to
> public systems, both in the Core network and eventually end to end
> including the Radio elements.
>
> The group’s first output will be a Report detailing the shortcomings of
> TCP/IP, and how the new alternative system would overcome those
> shortcomings. ISG NIN will also work on specifying how the technologies
> initially identified by ISG NGP will form the basis of the new protocols,
> as well as creating a framework for testing the efficiency and
> effectiveness of the new protocols, including over radio.
>
> “*I’m really happy to have been entrusted with the Chairmanship of this
> group. Finding new protocols for internet more suitable to the 5G era was
> essential. Big data and mission-critical systems such as industrial
> control, intelligent vehicles. and remote medicine cannot be addressed the
> best way with current TCP/IP-based networking*” says John Grant, Chair of
> ISG NIN.
>
> “*The IP stack and OSI layer model have undeniably enabled global
> connectivity – but since they originated in the 1970s, their design
> reflects the demands and capabilities of that era. Reassessing the
> fundamental design principles of network protocols offers the opportunity
> to deliver performance, security and efficiency gains for 2020 access
> networks and use cases, and may be achieved with simplification rather than
> expensive add-ons. The work of ETSI ISG NIN, in co-operation with industry
> organizations, can provide operators with a cutting-edge protocol suite to
> add to their service portfolio*” says Kevin Smith, Vice Chair of ISG NIN.
>
> About ETSI
> ETSI provides members with an open and inclusive environment to support
> the development, ratification and testing of globally applicable standards
> for ICT systems and services across all sectors of industry and society.
> We are a not-for-profit body with more than 900 member organizations
> worldwide, drawn from 65 countries and five continents. Members comprise a
> diversified pool of large and small private companies, research entities,
> academia, government and public organizations. ETSI is officially
> recognized by the EU as a European Standards Organization (ESO). For more
> information please visit us at https://www.etsi.org/.
>
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> Arkko & Hardie         Expires September 11, 2020              [Page 18]
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