[Chapter-delegates] Persistent problems with new membership system

Tue Aug 20 08:58:09 PDT 2019

Hello,

To manage the Chennai Chapter membership applicants, I log into AMS
periodically to find an accumulation of 50 - 100 applicants, (at the moment
it is 156 members, the list shows Name, email, and city (if disclosed) and
beyond that, to assess the relevance of the application, each name has to
clicked on one by one (which would take about 6 hours every time), and to
go to the next name, it requires to go back to the list, which if a sorted
list, does not automatically reappear sorted, so there are multiple steps
involved in going to the next name on the sorted list. In the case of
Chennai, the number of applicants from this relevant geographical region is
21 out of a total of 156, but in the sorted mode, all or most of the 21 can
be selected, but there is no "approve" button. Applicants have to be
approved one by one, and after every name, the remaining list of names can
be accessed after repeating the process of specifying "more filters".

The limits on the functionality of AMS has been discussed over and over
again, now we have a new membership with the same limitations. Why is it
difficult to "approve" as a bulk action in the sorted mode?

Thank you.

Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
Internet Society India Chennai.
twitter.com/shivaindia

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:35 PM Lincoln McNey <mcney at isoc.org> wrote:

> Hi all —
>
> Joly, thanks for the note on the Archives - we have been focusing more on
> the synch issue.  Now that Richard is once again part of the Internet
> Policy list, he can reset his password as normal.
>
> So we’ve looked into this and found the following:   There was a change
> recently where we’re now enforcing email opt-in more strictly, as it
> pertains to “public opt-in lists."  Therefore if someone was opted into
> Internet Policy but otherwise opted OUT of email (Veni is an example), then
> that user will no longer be synched to Internet Policy.  However, he/she
> will still be part of some other key lists that don’t require the opt-in
> action, such as Chapter Delegates and OMAC, where opt-in to email on those
> channels  is part of the person’s activities with ISOC.
>
> As Richard and Olivier have already confirmed, opting into email via the* Interests
> —> Email Channel *will resynch the individual to the list in due course
> (maximum 4 hours).
>
> We could have been better at foreseeing this consequence, and/or
> communicating this change - in this case we are continuing to try and keep
> within the bounds of ever-stricter mailing laws.  Apologies to anyone for
> inconvenience or confusion around this.
>
> For the denied chapter member applications still showing in the UI for
> some chapters:  we have reached out to the two officers who reported it.
> Their issue has already been fixed.  If other officers are experiencing
> this same issue, please do send these in to amshelp at isoc.org.  The
> developers are working on a more “global fix” for this, but it won’t be
> ready until next Thursday’s code push.
>
> Thanks —
>
> Lincoln
>
>
> Lincoln McNey
> Director, Global IT
> The Internet Society
> +41.7986.33390
> mcney at isoc.org
>
> On 8 May 2019, at 13:00, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>
> Brilliant. I used that link and it worked fine.
>
> Best,
> Richard
>
> *From:* Joly MacFie [mailto:joly.nyc at gmail.com <joly.nyc at gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* mercredi, 8. mai 2019 18:53
> *To:* Richard Hill
> *Cc:* Alejandro Pisanty; Joyce Dogniez; Chapter Delegates; Christine
> Saegesser; AMS Support
> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Problems with new membership system
>
> It is still possible to go to
>
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/options/internetpolicy
>
> or
>
>  https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/options/chapter-delegates
>
> Go through the password reset and login to adjust options
>
> You will also be able to access archives, e.g.
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/internetpolicy/ - which goes back
> to 2012.
>
> joly
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 12:39 PM Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>
> In my case, I was always able to send messages, but didn’t receive them.
> I noticed because I received replies when the senders had left my name on
> the distribution list, so I got the message directly, not from the list
> server.
>
> Best,
> Richard
>
> *From:* Alejandro Pisanty [mailto:apisanty at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* mercredi, 8. mai 2019 18:24
> *To:* Joyce Dogniez
> *Cc:* veni at veni.com; Richard Hill; Christine Saegesser; Chapter
> Delegates; AMS Support
> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Problems with new membership system
>
> Hi,
>
> update: I had followed the same steps that Richard has now described, and
> had obtained no response (as others have described as well) before writing
> to this list. I am now receiving email from the Internet Policy list but
> have not tested whether I can post (I will wait for some outrageous
> statement from Richard to pick a fight and try ;-) - no, seriously, I'll
> wait to test and report here.)
>
> Clearly the problem is widespread, may go unnoticed because of the bursty
> nature of list communications, and shows at least two more points:
>
> 1. a system that does not give the user feedback is baffling (witness what
> has been described for access to the archives);
>
> 2. some messages could be clearer, e.g. what you are actually getting when
> you allow access to a mailing list. The message only says that you are
> allowing email to be sent to you, but says nothing about posting rights and
> access to the archives, and whether this access is conditional on a
> userid+password combination. In turn, whether you need a specific
> userid+password combination for the archives or your ISOC ID is enough.
>
> Hope this can be worked out, and then, that all Chapter leaders can find a
> way to communicate the result to their memberships.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 7:41 AM Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
>
> Thanks for flagging the issue. We are looking into the sync and email
> receipt for the policy list.
>
> We’ll send an update by the end of day CET.
>
> Thanks a lot.
> Joyce
>
> Sent from my iPhone, sorry for clumsy thumbs.
>
>
> On 8 May 2019, at 13:35, Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com> wrote:
>
> Weird thing.
> My email channels were active (2 of them), but in the field for "receive
> emails" it was saying "no". I changed it to "yes".
>
> Sigh.
>
> v/
> On 05/08/19 04:50, Richard Hill wrote:
>
> Indeed, during the weekend, I noticed that I was no longer receiving
> e-mails from the Internet Policy list. I was unable to access the archives,
> and when I asked for a reset or the archive password (in case I had
> forgotten my password), nothing happened.
>
> I logged into my membership page (on www.isoc.org), clicked “Edit
> Profile”, then “Interests” and saw at the bottom right, under “EMAIL
> CHANNELS”, that my mailing lists were not active.  I activated them on that
> page, and since then I have been receiving messages from the lists again.
>
> I reported the issue, and also the inability to access the archive and to
> reset the archive password, to Chapter Support and they told me that they
> are working on it.
>
> Best,
> Richard
>
> *From:* Chapter-delegates [
> mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
> <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>] *On Behalf Of *Alejandro
> Pisanty
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2019 04:26
> *To:* Christine Saegesser
> *Cc:* Chapter Delegates; AMS Support
> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Problems with new membership system
>
> Hi,
>
> to add to the aggravations, a number of us have discovered today that many
> ISOC members have been cut off from the Internet Policy mailing list and
> are finding it impossible to be reinstated, as well as accessing the
> archives.
>
> In the process we have found that  it is not possible - or at least not at
> all easy - to even find the list through a member's dashboard. PLEASE act
> on this.
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 5:12 AM Christine Saegesser <saegesser at isoc.org>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Juan Carlos, all,
>
> Thanks for your message. Please be assured that we are in contact with
> MemberNova on a regular basis to make the system as useful as possible for
> all of us.
>
> The Regional Community Engagement Managers are there to help you with
> questions you may have in relation to the use of the new system. If you
> think there is a genuine bug, please do make sure to send details
> (including screen shots if possible) to <amshelp at isoc.org>.
>
> Also, please remember that our new Association Management System
> (MemberNova) is being rolled out in phases and its functionalities cover a
> wide range of areas across the organization. The Chapter functionalities
> are one of these.
>
> The Chapter Officer User Guide is available on the Chapter Dashboard in
> MemberNova. To get there, please log into MemberNova
> <https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login>  select your
> Chapter under "My Chapters and Special Interest Groups (SIG)” and you’ll
> find it under “Quick Links >  Chapter Officers User Guide” on the “Chapter
> Officer” tab.
>
> Having said that, we are also planning to organise additional MemberNova
> training for the Chapter leaders and will keep you updated on that.
>
> Best,
>
> Christine
>
>
>
> On 3. May 2019, at 09:15, Juan Carlos Cigala García <jcigala at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Christine,
>
> The first email in this thread was in february 12 (by Olivier MJ
> Crépin-Leblond) and today is march 3... I don't know if in our
> Organization (obviously including our members worldwide) there are somebody
> who can talk with the MemberNova team and help them about the bunch of
> issues...
>
> We have issues with the new portal in the Spain Canary Islands chapter
> (yet in formation). Until now, I wasn't consider publish our situation in
> this list but, it seems like the endless story with no good conclusion.
>
> IMO, we need a effective solution by the responsible team (MemberNova or
> whoever) NOW.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Juan C. Cigala
>
>
> El jue., 2 may. 2019 a las 21:00, Christine Saegesser (<saegesser at isoc.org>)
> escribió:
> Hi Veni, all,
>
> We are reading this mail thread. Can you (and Lianna) forward specifics of
> the denied membership that still seem to be there to <amshelp at isoc.org>
> so that we can have a look at what happened?
>
> Siva, unfortunately I cannot see the screen shots that you mention in your
> message. Can you please resend those to <amshelp at isoc.org> too so we
> can have a look at what you’re seeing?
>
> The actual “drop” in membership linked to the opt-in process last year
> became visible in the numbers you see with the new Association
> Management System (MemberNova), since only members who opted-in were
> migrated over to the new system.
>
> And just another note: that people from around the world can request to
> join your Chapter is not an error as such. Many Chapters do accept members
> from outside of their country. The decision if a Chapter does so or not
> (or: is allowed to do so or not) should be based on each Chapters' bylaws
> and local legislation.
>
> Best,
>
> Christine
>
>
> > On 2. May 2019, at 20:33, Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com> wrote:
> >
> > :-)
> > That's why I said "I've given up".
> > The problem is, when ISOC staff will come to chase us down that we have
> pending chapter members. So, hope they are reading this mail thread
> (and copying Nick, just in case).
> >
> > v/
> >
> > On 05/02/19 14:31, Lianna Galstyan wrote:
> >> Veni,
> >>
> >> We have the same issue of denied membership. We declined a membership
> of someone from Africa and that application is still there.
> >>
> >> Lianna
> >>
> >> On 02/05/2019 21:26, Veni Markovski wrote:
> >>> Siva,
> >>> I gave up trying to fix some of the issues.
> >>> In the GDPR question ISOC Bulgaria lost about half of its members -
> and I could understand that.
> >>> But then again, towards the end of the year, another 80 % were gone!
> The weird thing is that we emailed all of them - about 500 people, inviting
> them to an event we had in October, and offered them to opt-out; only one
> of them asked to not get more emails. Now we are down to about 115 members.
> >>> Also, there're a lot of people from Africa, who are now asking to be
> affiliated to our chapter - obviously an error. One of them cannot be
> denied membership. A N.H. is asking to join from April 23rd, and although
> we denied the request, she's still there....
> >>>
> >>> v
> >>>
> >>> On 05/02/19 13:18, sivasubramanian muthusamy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I tried to renew all subscriptions of members since 2011 expiring
> during 2019, there were about 300 records or so in the list, the extend
> command from the drop down box with select all mode, brought up a dialog
> box that wanted me to confirm by writing the word 'delete', I took my
> chances and wrote that to confirm the 'extend" command, all I see is a
> progress circle for the last 60 minutes. Some screen shots attached. Are
> there enough computing resources committed to the ams server? Why is this
> confusing instruction to confirm an "extend" command with the word 'delete'?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Veni
> >>>
> >>> https://www.veni.com
> >>>
> >>> pgp:5BA1366E
> >>> veni at veni.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The opinions expressed above are those of the
> >>> author, not of any organizations, associated
> >>> with or related to him in any given way.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> >>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
> Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
> >>>
> >>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
> >>
> >>
> >>      Virus-free. www.avast.com
> >
> > --
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Veni
> >
> > https://www.veni.com
> >
> > pgp:5BA1366E
> > veni at veni.com
> >
> >
> > The opinions expressed above are those of the
> > author, not of any organizations, associated
> > with or related to him in any given way.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> > https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
>
>
> --
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Facultad de Química UNAM
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Veni
>
> https://www.veni.com
>
> pgp:5BA1366E veni at veni.com
>
>
>
> The opinions expressed above are those of the
>
> author, not of any organizations, associated
>
> with or related to him in any given way.
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
>
>
> --
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Facultad de Química UNAM
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
>
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>
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