[Chapter-delegates] Comments and feedback on revised charter agreement

Wed Sep 6 08:55:13 PDT 2017

Dear Carlos,

with the best of respects......who would like to reinvent the complete
wheel, it is nothing but more of a time wasting exercise, I would say.
Not all the clauses are objectionable to many of us and rest can always be
debated. Trust me, I've been following the whole channel and it would be a
mammoth job for someone to carefully incorporate all the suggestions and
provide us with a very improved form of the document to further debate
upon.

And I humbly would also like to disagree to your approach by calling it not
a bottom up approach!

--
Best Regards,

*Sohaib Saleem*
V. Lecturer KICSIT <http://www.kicsit.edu.pk>
President ISOC PK IBD <http://www.isocibd.org.pk>
Vice President OSFP <http://www.osfp.org.pk>
Member Program Committee pkSIG <http://2017.pksig.pk>
+ 92 300 9195902
http://pk.linkedin.com/in/sohaibsaleem
https://www.facebook.com/sohaib.saleem

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Carlos Vera <cveraq at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Please stay tuned for the next version, I’m confident that together we
> can find a consensus that is acceptable to all."
>
> Agree with Brandt. This is not a bottom up process at all.
>
> The right instance for the agreement for being write from zero is
> necessary is the Chapters Advisory Council and The chair of the bottom up
> working group must take this challenge for the workgroup and for
> the Chapters Advisory Council itself so we can participate from the very
> beginning under the right methodology including building the principles of
> the agreement: not intervention, self regulation of chapters, real
> participation as a decision making instance, and much more.
>
> With those principles in mind will be time to write an agreement.
>
> Carlos Vera
> Isoc Ecuador
>
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 7:11 AM, Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Brandt,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your message.
>
> Indeed there is still a lot of discussion going on, which is obviously
> encouraged and welcomed.
>
> Having said that at some point we need to recap the comments made and
> understand how they can best be addressed.
>
> Which is why we had a one month period of comment.
>
>
>
> It may indeed well be that while going through all the comments and
> feedbacks there are areas that still need further discussion or that some
> of the clauses need to be reviewed, revised, clarified or simply removed.
>
>
>
> As was discussed early on the list, the agreement has been put together
> with initial feedback from Chapters and has been reviewed by the Chapters
> Advisory Council before posting on the list.
>
> There is surely no intention of dictating… the final version, or updated
> version if you prefer (you are right, the choice of word could have been
> better ☺), will be presented to the Chapters AC Steering Committee for
> revision and we will work with them to identify next steps.
>
>
>
> Please stay tuned for the next version, I’m confident that together we can
> find a consensus that is acceptable to all.
>
>
>
> Warm regards
>
>
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Brandt Dainow <brandt.dainow at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *"brandt.dainow at gmail.com" <brandt.dainow at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 6 September 2017 at 11:54
> *To: *Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org>, "chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org"
> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [Chapter-delegates] Comments and feedback on revised
> charter agreement
>
>
>
> With the greatest respect, I do not think these discussions have reached a
> state where conclusions can be drawn, and I personally resent being told
> that this discussion is over.  Perhaps I am mistaken, but my understanding
> from your email is that you will now create the final version of the
> chapter agreement.  If that is the case, then I also resent being told that
> you and (unknown) other people in central will decide the final version of
> the new chapter agreement.  These discussions have shown that the days have
> passed where national chapters will accept central office dictating to them
> in such a fashion.
>
>
>
> If you want to attempt to summarise positions, and propose a new agreement
> for consideration by chapters, that is acceptable to me.  However, I really
> don’t think you can legitimately do anything more than that.
>
>
>
> I propose that no new chapter agreement be finalised without the agreement
> of two-thirds of the national chapters, and that each national chapter
> determine how it will vote through formal agreement of its members.  We
> should bear in mind national members will be bound by the agreement,
> especially if they ever serve on their national committee.  It is contrary
> to democratic principles and the principles of justice that someone be
> bound by changes in rules they haven’t agreed to.  I am aware we currently
> lack a formal method for chapters to vote on such matters.  So I suggest we
> develop something as soon as possible.
>
>
>
> I suggest that this chapter delegates forum continue to discuss this issue
> as we feel appropriate.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brandt Dainow
>
> brandt.dainow at gmail.com
>
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brandt_Dainow
>
> http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/brandt.dainow
>
>
>
> *From:* Chapter-delegates [mailto:chapter-delegates-
> bounces at elists.isoc.org <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>] *On
> Behalf Of *Joyce Dogniez
> *Sent:* 06 September 2017 10:15
> *To:* chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> *Subject:* [Chapter-delegates] Comments and feedback on revised charter
> agreement
>
>
>
> Dear Chapter leaders,
>
>
>
> I want to thank you for your constructive feedback and comments on the
> revised charter agreement.
>
>
>
> As the deadline for comments was end of August, we will now start to
> compile the comments and see how to best address them in the final
> version.  This will be done by the end of the month.
>
>
>
> I have also received some comments from Chapters on specific local
> situations, I will get back to all of you as soon as possible on those.
>
> I know some of you are still waiting for some legal feedback locally,
> please contact me off list to let me know of any specific issues.
>
>
>
> Again thanks a lot for your input.
>
>
>
> Warm regards
>
>
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> —
>
> Joyce Dogniez, CMM
>
> Senior Director Global Engagement
>
> Internet Society
>
>
>
> dogniez at isoc.org
>
> Mob/Whatsapp: +352 621 266 189 <+352%20621%20266%20189>
>
> Skype: joycedogniez
>
>
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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