[Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement

Thu Aug 3 10:48:12 PDT 2017

Joyce,

Why not open a Google Doc, so as to make even the proposal document bottom up?

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 10:20 PM, Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org> wrote:
> HI Jorma, Hi all,
>
> Thank you all for the comments and thank you Jorma for the suggestion.
>
> While this clause is not a new one or revised one, we will be glad to work on improving its current wording to provide more clarity and less room for interpretation.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Kind regards
>
> Joyce
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org> on behalf of Jorma Mellin <jome at ficix.fi>
> Date: Thursday, 3 August 2017 at 09:21
> To: "chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org" <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement
>
> Hi all,
>
> The agreement will never reach a status where it is globally acceptable in all variances in chapters operations.
> At the end of the day, it is up to local authorities to decide how the wording should be understood.
>
> Major issues seems to be the "promoting in behalf of ISOC” and requirements for board members / office holders.
> Maybe we should re-phrase the wording to “promoting Internet development and governance according to principles
> set and jointly agreed by ISOC community, with local adaption of tools and methods”.
> This could give room to adjust the work to respect local laws / practises and take away the direct link between Chapter and ISOC office.
> Chapters work for the good of the Internet, not for the good of ISOC office.
>
> For board members / office holders and terms / elections we need maybe more room in practise. However, I would keep
> the requirement for having a transparent process for selecting trustees with a requirement that all accepted community
> "members” are legitimate to stand up as candidate (for any trustee position).
>
> Jorma Mellin
> ------------------------------------------
> Jorma Mellin <jome at ficix.fi>
> Ambassador, FICIX
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 03 Aug 2017, at 06:02, John More <morej1 at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sivasubramanian
>>
>> There is nothing in the Agreement that requires or even suggests that “lobbying” is required.  ISOC itself cannot do political lobbying in the United States — that is supporting one candidate over another.  It can address comments on legislation or ask its members to send messages to politicians about issues ISOC deems important for the future of the Internet, such as making it available to as many people as possible.  However, the Agreement as I read it does not require any Chapter to violate local laws.  Every Chapter has the right to raise its local issues and I would hope have specific reservations attached to the standard Agreement.
>>
>> Further “Promoting” means supporting ISOC principles of the open and available Internet.  If a Chapter is unable or uninterested in doing so, one must question why it should hold itself out as an ISOC Chapter.
>>
>> Perhaps the Agreement needs to be worded better.  Perhaps it needs clearer language about compliance with local law.
>>
>> John More
>>
>>> On Aug 2, 2017, at 1:33 PM, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Raul,
>>>
>>>
>>> Please give me some time to articulate this clearly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:54 PM, Raul Echeberria <echeberria at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Sivasubramanian
>>>>
>>>> When we speak about Internet society positions, we refer to our positions. We have now procedures in place for facilitating the participation of Chapters and members in the process of developing policy positions.
>>>>
>>>> But beyond this clarification, the sentence you are referring to, is already in the current Chapter Agreement and it has not been controversial so far.
>>>> Please elaborate more in where is exactly the problem.  Joyce already clarified that is not the intention of that sentence to ask Chapters to engage in lobbying activities, but if needed we are glad in working on trying to remove your concerns.
>>>>
>>>> Raúl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> El 2 ago. 2017, a las 11:49, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com> escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Joyce,
>>>>>
>>>>> Comment inline:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Brandt, hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for all the comments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me clarify a number of points that have been touched upon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With regards to the comment about the clause: “Promote one or more of the
>>>>>> Internet Society’s official strategic positions or initiatives with local
>>>>>> community leaders, media representatives, legislators, and/or regulatory
>>>>>> decision makers every 12 month period, and share the results of such
>>>>>> promotion with the ISOC staff within 30 days of completion”
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The clause does not provide for lobbying but rather promotion of positions,
>>>>>> which could be conducted even in simplest forms of activities, such as
>>>>>> posting a position on the chapter website, or indeed as was mentioned in
>>>>>> whichever way makes sense at local level.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> However well dressed this clause is, during the last 3 years or more,
>>>>> Staff thinking appears to favour a position that Chapters are expected
>>>>> to engage in "promoting Internet Society" positions with local
>>>>> Governments". I mentioned earlier in the thread about ISOC Chennai
>>>>> being unwilling to engage in any form of lobbying. However, speaking
>>>>> for the Chapter, we would always fiercely defend the Internet, its
>>>>> core values, the multi-stakeholder model of Internet Governance and
>>>>> other broad principles and positions that reflect the overall thinking
>>>>> of all Chapters and the Internet Community, almost as rough consensus
>>>>> positions. This we do on our own, and would continue do on our own.
>>>>> What became our own positions, even if not in tune with that of our
>>>>> Government, we have expressed in the past without hesitation. We would
>>>>> continue to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> The difficulty arises Chapters were to be expected to promote  a
>>>>> top-down position with the Government. That would be a different
>>>>> situation than defending our own positions or the positions that
>>>>> emerge by Global Chapter consensus, that we as a constituent of the
>>>>> Global Chapters contribute to / adopt. That would look more like a
>>>>> "Global" position than as a "foreign" position. This is a difficult
>>>>> point, the differences are somewhat hard to explain.  A case in point
>>>>> pertains to the discord I felt when I attended a ISOC at ICANN meeting in
>>>>> London, three or four years ago, which was with a hired Consultant who
>>>>> steered a session on Working with Governments, which almost felt like
>>>>> Lobbying 101. Such thinking must go.
>>>>>
>>>>> ISOC Chapters work more by inspiration than by directives. Most of us
>>>>> all inspired by Internet values, by how the Internet evolved and
>>>>> continues to, and how it is governed. With the prevailing degree of
>>>>> independence, with support - not directives - to Chapters, I trust
>>>>> that Chapters do and would continue do far more work with or without
>>>>> budgetary allocations and achieve more than by programs with millions
>>>>> of dollars in spending
>>>>>
>>>>> Sivasubramanian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually ISOC is established as an non-profit 501c3 under US laws, it is
>>>>>> legally not allowed to engage in lobby activities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also this clause is part of the current agreement, which each Chapter had to
>>>>>> sign to become or renew as a Chapter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the distribution of the message, only a part of our Chapters have
>>>>>> chosen to have a representative to the Chapters Advisory Council and since
>>>>>> this document affects all chapters and SIGs, it was important to find a
>>>>>> channel that would reach all chapters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope this clarifies those points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a lot
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joyce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org> on
>>>>>> behalf of Brandt Dainow <brandt.dainow at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: "brandt.dainow at gmail.com" <brandt.dainow at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2017 at 16:26
>>>>>> To: 'Eduardo Diaz' <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>, 'Seun Ojedeji'
>>>>>> <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>, Victor Ndonnang <ndonnang at isoc.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cc: "chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org" <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So – to ensure we all understand this.  My interpretation of your email is
>>>>>> the following, please let me know if this is correct?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1)      The document was written by staff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2)      The charter should have gone to the Advisory Council for review, but
>>>>>> did not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3)      Instead it was sent to chapter officers (us).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4)      Review means “reading” only – there is no possibility of changing
>>>>>> the document.  So even if it had gone to the Advisory Council, they would
>>>>>> not have been able to change it.  Neither can we.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this document has not been sent through proper procedures for approval by
>>>>>> the Advisory Council, I am not sure it has any validity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandt Dainow
>>>>>>
>>>>>> brandt.dainow at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brandt_Dainow
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/brandt.dainow
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Chapter-delegates [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Eduardo Diaz
>>>>>> Sent: 02 August 2017 15:12
>>>>>> To: Seun Ojedeji; Victor Ndonnang
>>>>>> Cc: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seun:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Charter was sent by staff to all Chapters Officers (i.e.
>>>>>> chapter-delegates) for their review (not for approval) until August 31.
>>>>>> However, it should have been sent to the members of the Advisory Council
>>>>>> only first for formal review.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand all comments are valid and as many Chapters have indicated
>>>>>> local laws will not allow the Charter to be signed as currently stated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 9:57 AM Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Victor,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your mail. However after following this thread, there seem to be
>>>>>> an impression that this document is still in draft status hence may change
>>>>>> in near future. Is that a valid interpretation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think your response on the above is very important, especially for those
>>>>>> of us currently in a chapter Bylaw drafting state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my mobile
>>>>>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2017 4:51 PM, "Victor Ndonnang" <ndonnang at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Seun,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your feedback. I would recommend to share it with your
>>>>>> chapter’s members since some new dispositions/changes will require special
>>>>>> Chapter’s members meeting for validation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since you are reviewing the Nigeria Chapter bylaws now, I would recommend to
>>>>>> incorporate the new changes/requirements before submitting the new bylaws to
>>>>>> members for approval.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Victor Ndonnang
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chapter Development Manager, Africa & Middle East.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internet Society
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.internetsociety.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org> on
>>>>>> behalf of Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 11:26
>>>>>> To: Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org" <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Revised Chapter Agreement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <Wearing my ISOC Nigeria Bylaw Review Committee Chair hat>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for sharing this, we are currently reviewing our Bylaw for the
>>>>>> Nigeria chapter and this document may come handy to members of our chapter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can I know if this is a final/public document hence can be shared with our
>>>>>> chapter members?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my mobile
>>>>>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2017 11:07 AM, "Joyce Dogniez" <dogniez at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Chapter Leaders,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internet Society Chapters are a very important part of our organization.
>>>>>> They act as a local presence globally to advance and represent ISOCs
>>>>>> mission, vision and principles. They are a crucial vehicle for ISOC to drive
>>>>>> the local advocacy efforts as well as implement activities and actions at
>>>>>> local level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be able to do this it is important that Chapters are well structured,
>>>>>> well governed, functional and that there is a clear definition of the role
>>>>>> of Chapters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since 2013 we have continued to strengthen our relationship with our
>>>>>> Chapters and are working with them to improve on a number of areas through:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The introduction of standardized Charter agreements to clarify the role of
>>>>>> and the support of Chapters
>>>>>> The introduction of minimum standards and a Chapter Performance Evaluation
>>>>>> to identify and support areas of improvement
>>>>>> The increase of financial and other support for Chapters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the increased financial support to our Chapters we also have an
>>>>>> increased responsibility and accountability towards our community. It is the
>>>>>> responsibility of Internet Society’s leadership to manage its funds in a
>>>>>> responsible and transparent manner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This implies that the legal relationship between Internet Society and its
>>>>>> Chapters needs to be well defined.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you all have seen Internet Society launched a new brand identity over the
>>>>>> last months, with a new logo, new font, new colours, a different tone of
>>>>>> voice, etc. Some of you have already been implementing this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As the local voices of the Internet Society, it is important that our
>>>>>> Chapters carry that same image and message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For all these reasons, we are introducing a revised Chapter Charter that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clarifies the relationship between Internet Society and its Chapters,
>>>>>> including external communications guidelines
>>>>>> Clarifies the expectations (minimum criteria, governance structure and
>>>>>> support) for both parties
>>>>>> Clarifies the expectations in terms of Internet related positions taken by
>>>>>> Chapters
>>>>>> Clarifies the use of the Internet Society Brand and use of Intellectual
>>>>>> Property
>>>>>> Clarifies the terms and accountability for funding provided by Internet
>>>>>> Society
>>>>>> Clarifies the terms of termination of a Chapter
>>>>>> Reduces the liability in case of abuse or misuse of funding and branding
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The attached agreement has been reviewed by the Chapters Advisory Council
>>>>>> Steering Committee who have given extensive feedback and input (thanks
>>>>>> again!!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We understand that some of the changes in the agreement will imply some
>>>>>> changes at Chapter level and we will of course work with all of you to
>>>>>> ensure you can go through the necessary processes at local level in due
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We will expect Chapters to sign the revised agreement before 1st of January
>>>>>> 2018 to still be eligible for Chapter funding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, I’d like to ask you all to review the attached Chapter Charter in
>>>>>> the next 30 days, until 31st August and please contact
>>>>>> chapter-support at isoc.org with any questions or specific issues you may have.
>>>>>> A French and Spanish version will be available later this week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to working together to continue to strengthen our Chapters
>>>>>> and to support the important work you do on the ground advancing our
>>>>>> mission.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joyce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> —
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joyce Dogniez, CMM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Senior Director Global Engagement
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internet Society
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dogniez at isoc.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mob/Whatsapp: +352 621 266 189
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Skype: joycedogniez
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org

-- 
Sivasubramanian M