[Chapter-delegates] How do we incorporate China and other countries that are different?

Thu Feb 25 01:39:22 PST 2016

Louis and others

Fadi Chehade back in 2014 said, "

the Chinese of course expect 'One Internet, one world' means they have a
seat at the table. *That seat at the table was impossible so long as ICANN
is, still today or will continue to be, under contract to the U.S.
government.*" (emphasis added.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhFk-fcuTEM

That was my source that mainland Chinese were effectively excluded.

I confirmed with him the accuracy of the quote. *Fadi like anyone else
could have made a mistake, but the absence of board members who publicly
take the point of view of "The group of 77" is compelling.*

I don't doubt your good faith (or George Sadowsky's for example.) I took a
look at the nomcom members and almost none look sympathetic to the changes
in governance most countries support.

Fadi Chehadé speaks about China - Nov 24 2014
<http://netpolicynews.com/89-r/272-fadi-chehade-speaks-about-china-nov-24-2014>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhFk-fcuTEM

>From an event in the Manhattan Borough President's office. The earlier part
of the meeting was about the .nyc domain. Fadi also discussed other things,
including this about China.

"Our danger really was that the Chinese were going to announce they will
have their own Internet and run away with their own root and leave us kind
of a second Internet. That was the biggest danger we were facing. (Audience
question) What would happen if they did? (Fadi continued) If they did, and
it's a good point, if the Chinese separated their Internet I think the
Internet as we know it - as a single platform to share ideas, to share
commerce, with a minimum of barriers, with a minimum friction - inevitably
if they separate the root we will have friction between the networks.
They'll put rules, they'll connect walls.

To get into their Internet you need "x". To get out of their Internet you
need "y." That's not the Internet we want. We want an Internet that is open
as Tim Berners-Lee would say. That information and ideas and commerce flows
through it. I think it very important to know that that danger largely is
behind us. I just came from China yesterday and China has made clear
announcements that they are now supporting ICANN, [inaudible] ICANN. They
are legitimizing the root of ICANN, legitimizing that we want one single
Internet. That's extremely powerful and notable this year. (Borough
President Gail Brewer said) Congratulations. (Fadi continues) Yes, it is a
huge, huge step forward for us.

Now, we are watching, we are not naive about the importance of this event
and the importance of what it means. So in [inaudible] this week I was
there with the CEO of, from New York here, Thomson-Reuters, the CEO of
Linkedin, the CEO of Qualcomm and many others. We went to meet with Premier
?Li and Premier ?Li asserted and confirmed again that China is for one
global Internet. Now, they had never said this before London. One global
Internet. One Internet, One world. [inaudible name] said.

Now,

the Chinese of course expect "One Internet, one world" means they have a
seat at the table. That seat at the table was impossible so long as ICANN
is, still today or will continue to be, under contract to the U.S.
government. It just wasn't [partially inaudible. Possibly congruent.] We
could just not tell the Chinese you have an equal seat at the table in one
global Internet but sorry to inform you the root is really under contract
to the U.S. government. It just wasn't going to go. I think this is pretty
obvious at a basic level. Now, getting it all done is complicated and here
we are."

    Recorded by Joly MacFie of ISOC-NY, who has posted it on YouTube
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhFk-fcuTEM&feature=youtu.be>. The rest of
the 90 minute event also will soon be posted.

Fadi Chehadé speaks about China - Nov 24 2014
<http://netpolicynews.com/89-r/272-fadi-chehade-speaks-about-china-nov-24-2014>

>From an event in the Manhattan Borough President's office. The earlier part
of the meeting was about the .nyc domain. Fadi also discussed other things,
including this about China.

"Our danger really was that the Chinese were going to announce they will
have their own Internet and run away with their own root and leave us kind
of a second Internet. That was the biggest danger we were facing. (Audience
question) What would happen if they did? (Fadi continued) If they did, and
it's a good point, if the Chinese separated their Internet I think the
Internet as we know it - as a single platform to share ideas, to share
commerce, with a minimum of barriers, with a minimum friction - inevitably
if they separate the root we will have friction between the networks.
They'll put rules, they'll connect walls.

To get into their Internet you need "x". To get out of their Internet you
need "y." That's not the Internet we want. We want an Internet that is open
as Tim Berners-Lee would say. That information and ideas and commerce flows
through it. I think it very important to know that that danger largely is
behind us. I just came from China yesterday and China has made clear
announcements that they are now supporting ICANN, [inaudible] ICANN. They
are legitimizing the root of ICANN, legitimizing that we want one single
Internet. That's extremely powerful and notable this year. (Borough
President Gail Brewer said) Congratulations. (Fadi continues) Yes, it is a
huge, huge step forward for us.

Now, we are watching, we are not naive about the importance of this event
and the importance of what it means. So in [inaudible] this week I was
there with the CEO of, from New York here, Thomson-Reuters, the CEO of
Linkedin, the CEO of Qualcomm and many others. We went to meet with Premier
?Li and Premier ?Li asserted and confirmed again that China is for one
global Internet. Now, they had never said this before London. One global
Internet. One Internet, One world. [inaudible name] said.

Now,
Fadi Chehadé speaks about China - Nov 24 2014
<http://netpolicynews.com/89-r/272-fadi-chehade-speaks-about-china-nov-24-2014>

>From an event in the Manhattan Borough President's office. The earlier part
of the meeting was about the .nyc domain. Fadi also discussed other things,
including this about China.

"Our danger really was that the Chinese were going to announce they will
have their own Internet and run away with their own root and leave us kind
of a second Internet. That was the biggest danger we were facing. (Audience
question) What would happen if they did? (Fadi continued) If they did, and
it's a good point, if the Chinese separated their Internet I think the
Internet as we know it - as a single platform to share ideas, to share
commerce, with a minimum of barriers, with a minimum friction - inevitably
if they separate the root we will have friction between the networks.
They'll put rules, they'll connect walls.

To get into their Internet you need "x". To get out of their Internet you
need "y." That's not the Internet we want. We want an Internet that is open
as Tim Berners-Lee would say. That information and ideas and commerce flows
through it. I think it very important to know that that danger largely is
behind us. I just came from China yesterday and China has made clear
announcements that they are now supporting ICANN, [inaudible] ICANN. They
are legitimizing the root of ICANN, legitimizing that we want one single
Internet. That's extremely powerful and notable this year. (Borough
President Gail Brewer said) Congratulations. (Fadi continues) Yes, it is a
huge, huge step forward for us.

Now, we are watching, we are not naive about the importance of this event
and the importance of what it means. So in [inaudible] this week I was
there with the CEO of, from New York here, Thomson-Reuters, the CEO of
Linkedin, the CEO of Qualcomm and many others. We went to meet with Premier
?Li and Premier ?Li asserted and confirmed again that China is for one
global Internet. Now, they had never said this before London. One global
Internet. One Internet, One world. [inaudible name] said.

Now, the Chinese of course expect "One Internet, one world" means they have
a seat at the table. That seat at the table was impossible so long as ICANN
is, still today or will continue to be, under contract to the U.S.
government. It just wasn't [partially inaudible. Possibly congruent.] We
could just not tell the Chinese you have an equal seat at the table in one
global Internet but sorry to inform you the root is really under contract
to the U.S. government. It just wasn't going to go. I think this is pretty
obvious at a basic level. Now, getting it all done is complicated and here
we are."

    Recorded by Joly MacFie of ISOC-NY, who has posted it on YouTube
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhFk-fcuTEM&feature=youtu.be>. The rest of
the 90 minute event also will soon be posted. It just wasn't [partially
inaudible. Possibly congruent.] We could just not tell the Chinese you have
an equal seat at the table in one global Internet but sorry to inform you
the root is really under contract to the U.S. government. It just wasn't
going to go. I think this is pretty obvious at a basic level. Now, getting
it all done is complicated and here we are."

    Recorded by Joly MacFie of ISOC-NY, who has posted it on YouTube
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhFk-fcuTEM&feature=youtu.be>. The rest of
the 90 minute event also will soon be posted.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Louis Houle <louis.houle at oricom.ca> wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> And other candidates from China have been considered also during my term
> on the NomCom of ICANN. If they were not elected, it's not an exclusion
> matter. Candidates are considered all alike. Criterias don't come from the
> US Gov.  I find your point of view a little bit short on this, with all my
> respect.
>
> Louis Houle
> President
> ISOC QuebecLouis.Houle at isoc.quebec
>
> Le 2016-02-21 23:27, Alejandro Pisanty a écrit :
>
> Dave,
>
> though this may puncture a balloon, there has been at least one Chinese
> citizen, national and resident in the ICANN Board.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 10:25 PM, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Kathy and folk, with respect
>>
>> Using the name Internet Society of CHina is tasteless, but there are much
>> more important issues in this discussion.
>>
>> China has twice as many Internet users as the U.S. and the gap is growing
>> at 5-8M users per year. Africa is about to pass 315M Internet users, the
>> entire population of the United States. (Cisco data.) Cheap smartphones are
>> bringing two *billion* more people to the Internet. We all think that's
>> a great thing.
>>
>> *I do not believe Internet governance (or ISOC) can be effective with the
>> majority of world Internet users excluded.* As Ambassador Phil Verveer
>> said to me the night of the ITU WCIT vote, "We must build bridges."
>>
>> *It's time for a Nixon Goes to China move for the Internet. *Kathy, Vint
>> or whoever is leading us should be finding a way to work with all nations.
>> Bob Kahn, an Internet Society founder, might be one natural link. He spoke
>> at that conference in China, as did several other Internet Society
>> supporters.
>>
>> I'm not blind to how many people starved in the 1950's in China, what
>> happened at Tiananmen Square, or the speech limitations in China today. I'm
>> also not blind to what America did in Vietnam or the $billions being spent
>> to buy the U.S. elections.
>>
>> I'm sure we all can make lawyer-like arguments here. But it's missing the
>> key issue. We need to solve the North-South divide about the Internet.
>>
>> In Dubai at the WCIT a few hours before that vote, I asked Larry
>> Strickling why the U.S. was fighting so hard over what seemed to me some
>> very minor issues, at most of symbolic value. He looked at me and asked,
>> "Dave, do you want Russia or China to be running the Internet?" We both
>> went back to work.
>>
>> Later, I realized I should have said, "Of course I want Russia and China
>> to have a meaningful role. If we continue to exclude them, ultimately the
>> Internet will split."
>>
>> I did not know at that time that no Chinese were on the Board of ICANN
>> because that would not be acceptable to the U.S.
>>
>> The Internet Society should be leading the way. Excluding China - and so
>> many others - I believe will fail.
>>
>> --------------
>>
>> Which doesn't say anything about whether this is the right way to handle
>> who is a civil society group. That's a side issue. The big question is
>> whether the ICANN board and the decision makers of all important groups
>> here see more than one side of the North South divide.
>>
>> Dave Burstein.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and DSL Prime
>> Author with Jennie Bourne  DSL (Wiley) and Web Video: Making It Great,
>> Getting It Noticed (Peachpit)
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
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> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and DSL Prime
Author with Jennie Bourne  DSL (Wiley) and Web Video: Making It Great,
Getting It Noticed (Peachpit)
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