[Chapter-delegates] Follow-up: Serious considerations to dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter

Sat Sep 28 04:40:28 PDT 2013

To my knowledge staff have never used a command and obey approach. So I think this is a bit of a red herring. But were that that happen there needs to be a mechanism or procedure to correct such a misuse of authority. 

John More
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 28, 2013, at 6:01 AM, Klaus Birkenbihl <Klaus.Birkenbihl at Isoc.de> wrote:
> 
> John, I'm with you that paragraphs like "The purpose of this
> association is educate the local government on how to apply
> censorship on the Internet in a inconspicous way." should
> either be removed or lead to the denial of the chapter status.
> 
> But there should be/are explicit and implicit (aka spirit)
> standards that help chapters to make bylaws and programs
> that are compatible with ISOC's mission - without having
> to ask an ISOCian watchdog "is it OK?" before they move.
> (I admit that what contributes to a free and open Internet
> in one culture might be offensive to another. But these
> issues should rather be resolved in a discussion than by
> command [ISOC global] and obey [Chapter]. This makes the
> difference between imperialism and cultural diversity.)
> 
> I understand is that the "guidelines" are made to ensure
> chapters comply to ISOC's mission and goals. But these
> guideline themselves are against the spirit of ISOC. They
> resemble "father knows best", cultural imperialism,
> lack of democracy, lack of transparency ... Reading these
> "guidelines" and following discussions and chapter
> activities I wonder if its really the chapters that need
> to be supervised and guided. Wouldn't make far more sense
> to have an instance to ensure, that the values and goals
> that we preach to the world are maintained and respected
> within the membership of the organization?
> 
> Ceterum censeo: it should not forgotten that chapters are
> associations of *members* - not payed staff.
> 
> Klaus
> 
> John More wrote on 2013-09-27 22:09:
>> I had pointed this out when the DC Chapter was formed.  In fact, the
>> directors have a fiduciary duty and legal requirement to enact changes
>> where needed irrespective of this requirement.  On there other hand,
>> if the changes were to subvert or contradict the mission and policies
>> of ISOC, then the review is appropriate.
>> 
>> Another task to put on the list.
>> 
>> John More
>> Treasurer 
>> Washington DC Chapter
>> 
>> On Sep 27, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Ted Mooney <mooney at isoc.org
>> <mailto:mooney at isoc.org>> wrote:
>> 
>>> While noting that these are "guidelines " and not required, per se,
>>> I also agree that such clauses require revision.  The essence of the
>>> by-laws review by ISOC Membership & Services is to assure adherence
>>> to our values and principles – inclusion, diversity, democratic
>>> governance, succession, etc. I do appreciate that the By-laws guides
>>> are in need of a review.
>>> 
>>> Ted
>>> 
>>> From: Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com <mailto:veni at veni.com>>
>>> Reply-To: "veni at veni.com <mailto:veni at veni.com>" <veni at veni.com
>>> <mailto:veni at veni.com>>
>>> Date: Friday, September 27, 2013 3:49 PM
>>> To: Klaus Birkenbihl <Klaus.Birkenbihl at Isoc.de
>>> <mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl at Isoc.de>>
>>> Cc: "chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>"
>>> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up: Serious considerations
>>> to dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But wait, that's not all!
>>> 
>>> This is becoming more and more worrisome!
>>> The text, actually, comes from... ISOC Global !!
>>> *It is mandatory*!
>>> 
>>> http://www.isoc.org/isoc/chapters/guidelines/bylaws.shtml
>>> 
>>> 
>>>        Article XI. - Amendment and Voting Procedures
>>> 
>>> 1. *All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been
>>>    approved by the ISOC Membership Team before being presented to
>>>    the Chapter membership for a vote.* 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have no recollection about these guidelines, but they have so many
>>> flaws, errors and statements which contradict the national law, that
>>> if it was up to me, I would remove them permanently right now from
>>> the web site, and will put a statement that they were there by a
>>> mistake.
>>> Why I am saying it? Because it is not the only mandatory text in
>>> these guidelines, and the rest is equally unacceptable by national
>>> legislation, but also by common sense. Take article 1:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>        Article I. - Name
>>> 
>>> 1. * This organization shall be called the [*your chapter name* ]
>>>    Chapter of the Internet Society.* 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There's no way for a non-profit, which is created, and is not yet a
>>> recognized chapter to have this in their title. Further, to put it
>>> in the title, in some jurisdictions, would require some kind of
>>> document from ISOC, and in some cases this may be a Board decision.
>>> A Board decision of ISOC HQ. Really? Really???
>>> 
>>> Or how about article II - Purpose -  *(again mandatory!)*
>>> * This Chapter is chartered by the Internet Society. These bylaws
>>> neither supersede nor abrogate any of the Bylaws of the Internet
>>> Society that regulate chapter affairs.*
>>> 
>>> What if the bylaws of ISOC.org <http://ISOC.org> are against the
>>> laws of national chapters?
>>> 
>>> I can only imagine how some chapters might be feeling now, when they
>>> are reading these quotes.
>>> 
>>> But wait, that's not all!
>>> 
>>> How about "* All members of a chapter shall also be members of the
>>> Internet Society*"*(again mandatory!)*
>>> 
>>> Really?
>>> 
>>> Again - this page needs urgent take down.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> best,
>>> veni
>>> chairman of the board
>>> ISOC - Bulgaria.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 09/27/13 13:45, Klaus Birkenbihl wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Norbert Klein wrote on 2013-09-27 11:15:
>>>>> During this process we also faced the dilemma resulting from the
>>>>> following section of the proposed Bylaws:
>>>>> 
>>>>>    *Article XI. - Amendment and Voting Procedures*
>>>>> 
>>>>>    1.
>>>>> 
>>>>>        All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have
>>>>>        been approved by the Internet Society (International)
>>>>>        before being presented to the Chapter membership for a vote.
>>>> Hoho! Would be good to know how many chapters have this in their
>>>> bylaws. (I wonder how to work as a responsible board member of a
>>>> registered association in county (A) while non members of the
>>>> association in country (B) can control and block decisions.) Not
>>>> being the lawyer in our board I wonder if this would be legal at
>>>> all. And what btw. if a chapter member requests a change of the
>>>> bylaws? How could this work? Just for curiosity: is the guy who
>>>> "proposed" this still on ISOC staff?
>>>> 
>>>> Best, Klaus
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Klaus Birkenbihl
>>>> Treasurer and Board member
>>>> Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (ISOC.DE)
>>>> c/o ict-Media GmbH
>>>> http://www.isoc.de/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 
> -- 
> Klaus Birkenbihl
> Treasurer and Board member
> Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (ISOC.DE)
> c/o ict-Media GmbH
> http://www.isoc.de/
> <Klaus_Birkenbihl.vcf>