[Chapter-delegates] Follow-up: Serious considerations to dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter

Sat Sep 28 02:01:16 PDT 2013

John, I'm with you that paragraphs like "The purpose of this
association is educate the local government on how to apply
censorship on the Internet in a inconspicous way." should
either be removed or lead to the denial of the chapter status.

But there should be/are explicit and implicit (aka spirit)
standards that help chapters to make bylaws and programs
that are compatible with ISOC's mission - without having
to ask an ISOCian watchdog "is it OK?" before they move.
(I admit that what contributes to a free and open Internet
in one culture might be offensive to another. But these
issues should rather be resolved in a discussion than by
command [ISOC global] and obey [Chapter]. This makes the
difference between imperialism and cultural diversity.)

I understand is that the "guidelines" are made to ensure
chapters comply to ISOC's mission and goals. But these
guideline themselves are against the spirit of ISOC. They
resemble "father knows best", cultural imperialism,
lack of democracy, lack of transparency ... Reading these
"guidelines" and following discussions and chapter
activities I wonder if its really the chapters that need
to be supervised and guided. Wouldn't make far more sense
to have an instance to ensure, that the values and goals
that we preach to the world are maintained and respected
within the membership of the organization?

Ceterum censeo: it should not forgotten that chapters are
associations of *members* - not payed staff.

Klaus

John More wrote on 2013-09-27 22:09:
> I had pointed this out when the DC Chapter was formed.  In fact, the
> directors have a fiduciary duty and legal requirement to enact changes
> where needed irrespective of this requirement.  On there other hand,
> if the changes were to subvert or contradict the mission and policies
> of ISOC, then the review is appropriate.
> 
> Another task to put on the list.
> 
> John More
> Treasurer 
> Washington DC Chapter
> 
> On Sep 27, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Ted Mooney <mooney at isoc.org
> <mailto:mooney at isoc.org>> wrote:
> 
>> While noting that these are "guidelines " and not required, per se,
>> I also agree that such clauses require revision.  The essence of the
>> by-laws review by ISOC Membership & Services is to assure adherence
>> to our values and principles – inclusion, diversity, democratic
>> governance, succession, etc. I do appreciate that the By-laws guides
>> are in need of a review.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> From: Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com <mailto:veni at veni.com>>
>> Reply-To: "veni at veni.com <mailto:veni at veni.com>" <veni at veni.com
>> <mailto:veni at veni.com>>
>> Date: Friday, September 27, 2013 3:49 PM
>> To: Klaus Birkenbihl <Klaus.Birkenbihl at Isoc.de
>> <mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl at Isoc.de>>
>> Cc: "chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>"
>> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up: Serious considerations
>> to dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter
>>
>>
>> But wait, that's not all!
>>
>> This is becoming more and more worrisome!
>> The text, actually, comes from... ISOC Global !!
>> *It is mandatory*!
>>
>> http://www.isoc.org/isoc/chapters/guidelines/bylaws.shtml
>>
>>
>>         Article XI. - Amendment and Voting Procedures
>>
>>  1. *All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have been
>>     approved by the ISOC Membership Team before being presented to
>>     the Chapter membership for a vote.* 
>>
>>
>> I have no recollection about these guidelines, but they have so many
>> flaws, errors and statements which contradict the national law, that
>> if it was up to me, I would remove them permanently right now from
>> the web site, and will put a statement that they were there by a
>> mistake.
>> Why I am saying it? Because it is not the only mandatory text in
>> these guidelines, and the rest is equally unacceptable by national
>> legislation, but also by common sense. Take article 1:
>>
>>
>>         Article I. - Name
>>
>>  1. * This organization shall be called the [*your chapter name* ]
>>     Chapter of the Internet Society.* 
>>
>>
>> There's no way for a non-profit, which is created, and is not yet a
>> recognized chapter to have this in their title. Further, to put it
>> in the title, in some jurisdictions, would require some kind of
>> document from ISOC, and in some cases this may be a Board decision.
>> A Board decision of ISOC HQ. Really? Really???
>>
>> Or how about article II - Purpose -  *(again mandatory!)*
>> * This Chapter is chartered by the Internet Society. These bylaws
>> neither supersede nor abrogate any of the Bylaws of the Internet
>> Society that regulate chapter affairs.*
>>
>> What if the bylaws of ISOC.org <http://ISOC.org> are against the
>> laws of national chapters?
>>
>> I can only imagine how some chapters might be feeling now, when they
>> are reading these quotes.
>>
>> But wait, that's not all!
>>
>> How about "* All members of a chapter shall also be members of the
>> Internet Society*"*(again mandatory!)*
>>
>> Really?
>>
>> Again - this page needs urgent take down.
>>
>>
>> best,
>> veni
>> chairman of the board
>> ISOC - Bulgaria.
>>
>>
>>    
>> On 09/27/13 13:45, Klaus Birkenbihl wrote:
>>>
>>> Norbert Klein wrote on 2013-09-27 11:15:
>>>> During this process we also faced the dilemma resulting from the
>>>> following section of the proposed Bylaws:
>>>>
>>>>     *Article XI. - Amendment and Voting Procedures*
>>>>
>>>>     1.
>>>>
>>>>         All proposed changes to these Chapter Bylaws shall have
>>>>         been approved by the Internet Society (International)
>>>>         before being presented to the Chapter membership for a vote.
>>>>
>>> Hoho! Would be good to know how many chapters have this in their
>>> bylaws. (I wonder how to work as a responsible board member of a
>>> registered association in county (A) while non members of the
>>> association in country (B) can control and block decisions.) Not
>>> being the lawyer in our board I wonder if this would be legal at
>>> all. And what btw. if a chapter member requests a change of the
>>> bylaws? How could this work? Just for curiosity: is the guy who
>>> "proposed" this still on ISOC staff?
>>>
>>> Best, Klaus
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Klaus Birkenbihl
>>> Treasurer and Board member
>>> Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (ISOC.DE)
>>> c/o ict-Media GmbH
>>> http://www.isoc.de/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 

-- 
Klaus Birkenbihl
Treasurer and Board member
Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (ISOC.DE)
c/o ict-Media GmbH
http://www.isoc.de/
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