[Chapter-delegates] Follow-up: Serious considerations to dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter

Grigori Saghyan gregor at arminco.com
Tue Sep 24 01:35:30 PDT 2013 

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Veni,
you are right, with existing ByLaws it is better to have a Chapter
without any registration as a legal entity. But in that case necessary
to take care for technical problems - how to collect membership fees
from members (if there is is a membership fee), bank accounts
management, taxes,  etc.
Grigori Saghyan
ISOC.AM

On 24.09.2013 7:00, Veni Markovski wrote:
> I don't quite follow why it has to be an NGO? There are articles in
> the Civic code, which makes it possible to have an entity, without
> legally registering it. I am sure that such provisions exist in
> other laws (may be not all over the globe). To become a chapter 
> does not require to be a registered in court non-profit.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> On 09/23/13 22:56, info at isoc.org.ec wrote:
>> Several Chapters face the same kind of problems. We need work
>> with support of several volunteers and partners because simply to
>> have an office is not only to have a place.. It means to have
>> people, pay taxes, social security for employees and legal
>> representatives, accounting people, plus office equipment and
>> much much more. Even If you share some space office you need a
>> contract and so. Because of this, HQ made this very flexible and
>> one way is not to be a formal NGO. Maybe this can work changing
>> the bylaws
>> 
>> Carlos Vera
>> 
>> Internet Society Ecuador www.isoc.org.ec
>> <http://www.isoc.org.ec> Síguenos @isocec
>> 
>> El 23/09/2013, a las 3:45, Chantra Be <chantra.be at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:chantra.be at gmail.com>> escribió:
>> 
>>> Dear Chapter Representatives, Dear ISOC central and
>>> Asia-Pacific leaders and staff,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This mail is written after long considerations in the
>>> Executive Committee of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter, discussed
>>> together with the members of our Advisory Board.
>>> 
>>> It is to propose ? unless real and practical alternatives are 
>>> identified within the following month ? to call a meeting of
>>> all members of our Chapter for the purpose of taking a vote to
>>> dissolve the ISOC Cambodia Chapter.
>>> 
>>> We are looking forward to responses from all concerned
>>> recipients of this mail.
>>> 
>>> The reasons for considering this serious step can be
>>> summarized under the following three headings:
>>> 
>>> 1. Structural Constraints 2. Experiences 3. Impressions
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 1. Structural Constraints
>>> 
>>> The Cambodia Chapter of the Internet Society started to
>>> function in 2010, since 2011 under revised Bylaws - designed
>>> according to advice from ISOC international, before voted upon
>>> by our membership, which say among others:
>>> 
>>> *  Article I. - Name
>>> 
>>> 2. The Chapter shall be established as a non-profit
>>> organization under the laws of Cambodia.*
>>> 
>>> The Executive Committee of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter tried to 
>>> implement the requirement in Number 2 above, by contacting the 
>>> relevant section of the Ministry of the Interior. It turned out
>>> that the legal setting up of a non-profit organization would
>>> require to follow specific regulations in which a physical
>>> office (not only a point of communication) has to be
>>> established and operated.
>>> 
>>> Our efforts to receive financial assistance from ISOC 
>>> international (an organization with a budget self-described as
>>> ?In 2011, ISOC projects that total revenues will exceed $30
>>> million for the first time?) were turned down, as the
>>> priorities set there do not include institutional support for
>>> Chapters. The advice to do substantive local fund raising would
>>> have required in our situation to be an established
>>> organization already. Without such assistance, we do not see it
>>> possible to set up and operate an office for the ISOC Cambodia
>>> Chapter according to the legal national registration
>>> framework.
>>> 
>>> 2. Experiences (with some quotes from the past)
>>> 
>>> When, in August 2012, Ms. Duangthip Chomprang, the ISOC
>>> Manager for Regional Affairs (Asia) from the Asia Pacific
>>> Regional Office, announced to visit Cambodia, we welcomed this
>>> as an opportunity to discuss our situation with her.
>>> Unfortunately, she refused to have a meeting with our chapter
>>> to discuss our problems. In response the following mail was
>>> sent to her and to the other ISOC regional staff in Singapore,
>>> after due deliberations with our Advisory Board and Executive
>>> Committee:
>>> 
>>> -------- Original Message -------- Subject Message from our
>>> Advisory Board and the Executive Committee Date: Thu, 23 Aug
>>> 2012 15:40:15 +0700 From: President of ISOC Cambodia
>>> <president at isoc-kh.org <mailto:president at isoc-kh.org>> To:
>>> Duangthip Chomprang <chomprang at isoc.org 
>>> <mailto:chomprang at isoc.org>>, Rajnesh Singh <singh at isoc.org 
>>> <mailto:singh at isoc.org>> CC: Ong Pisey <treasurer at isoc-kh.org
>>> <mailto:treasurer at isoc-kh.org>>
>>> 
>>> *    Dear Thip,
>>> 
>>> After having received your mail, rejecting our request to
>>> serious discuss the crisis for our Chapter, created as a result
>>> of the general situation and legal requirements in Cambodia in
>>> the meeting, and the refusal to ISOC staff to positively pay
>>> attention to our situation, we do not think it would be
>>> appropriate to cooperate, as a Chapter, with organizing a
>>> meeting for your 1 - 2.5 hours event, for which you would like
>>> to invite the Members of the Cambodia Chapter and other
>>> non-Chapter members. To discuss fundamental problems within 
>>> ISOC, affecting the whole membership, only among officers, as
>>> you suggest (which has been tried in vain by email so far)
>>> would not be in line with our history to promote and practice
>>> open communication ? high values regularly lifted up among the
>>> goals of the Internet Society world wide and in its slogan: the
>>> Internet is for everyone.
>>> 
>>> The situation and this response has been shared and discussed 
>>> with the Members of the Advisory Board of our Chapter and is 
>>> unanimously supported.
>>> 
>>> Norbert Klein President, ISOC-KH*
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The five members of our Advisory Board at that time were 
>>> (reflecting the stipulation of our Bylaws ?The Advisory Board
>>> of five members, from important sections of the ISOC Cambodia
>>> Chapter membership?):
>>> 
>>> the Head of the IT in Education Section in the Ministry of 
>>> Education the Editor in Chief of a leading Cambodian daily
>>> newspaper, who is at the same time President of the Club of
>>> Cambodian Journalists the President and CEO of a major
>>> broadband providing ISP a senior staff member in the office of
>>> the Council of Ministers of the Government of Cambodia, and one
>>> student.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Nevertheless, I and the former president of the ISOC Cambodia 
>>> Chapter participated in the meeting which Ms. Duangthip
>>> Chomprang organized to present her PowerPoint slides about the
>>> Internet Society. There was even one with a headline related to
>>> human rights concerns ? but the rest of this page of this slide
>>> was blank, and she quickly explained that such issues are not
>>> dealt with here, because they are new for ISOC.
>>> 
>>> Our Chapter never received any sign that Mr. Rajnesh Singh,
>>> the ISOC Regional Bureau Director for Asia-Pacific ? nor other
>>> ISOC personnel - were concerned how to find a solution for the
>>> dilemma we were facing. Actually, during the years of our
>>> existence as a Chapter, we never received any mail whatsoever
>>> from the ISOC Regional Bureau Director Asia-Pacific, except for
>>> circular announcements.
>>> 
>>> Subsequently, mail to the ISOC Manager for Regional Affairs 
>>> (Asia) did not receive any response.
>>> 
>>> This attitude of ISOC Regional Staff, refusing to discuss with
>>> us our problems, resulted already in the September 2012 Annual
>>> General Meeting in disappointment and restricted expectations
>>> towards the ISOC international setup.
>>> 
>>> When ISOC staff is discussing "standard performance" of
>>> Chapters, how is "standard performance" defined and measured?
>>> Only for Chapters? Is it standard performance that a Regional
>>> Officer announces and brings non-members to a "Meet and greet"
>>> (who say that two hours ago they did not know what the Internet
>>> Society is), but the Regional Officer encourages them to become
>>> members - OK - and to stand as candidate two weeks later for
>>> Chapter leadership? - Is it standard procedure that I learn
>>> from a mailing list that the Regional Office is "working within
>>> the government to provide more support and knowledge" ? we do
>>> not know until now what this is. Who is monitoring performance
>>> over what?
>>> 
>>> When the Cambodian government mandated internet cafe owners to 
>>> set up surveillance cameras in their shops and register the
>>> names of all customers - 
>>> http://thediplomat.com/asean-beat/2012/12/27/cambodias-war-on-internet-cafes
>>>
>>> 
? in 2012, and later declared almost all Internet cafes in the
>>> capital city to be illegal as they were closer than 500 m to
>>> any school
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5062&Itemid=207
>>>
>>>
>>> 
and
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Penh+%22500+meter%22+internet+cafe+school&lr=&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=DHktUsr4M4fRkgXZt4CgBQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=564#facrc=_&imgrc=vHrInVRwY-NCdM%3A%3BB07fhLsihMLmKM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Flivinginpp.files.wordpress.com%252F2012%252F12%252F874-map-internetbuffer_zoom-1.jpg%253Fw%253D459%2526h%253D600%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Falfredmeier.me%252F2012%252F12%25
>>>
>>> 
2F15%252Fcomplete-ban-on-internet-cafes-in-central-phnom-penh%252F%3B459%3B600
>>> 
>>> - a number of legally established NGOs raised their voices 
>>> together, addressing such actions of the authorities; the ISOC 
>>> Cambodia Chapter was not part of it, as we are ? legally
>>> speaking ? a non entity. And surely this would also not have
>>> helped the ?local fundraising? which ISOC staff outside of our
>>> situation had recommended
>>> 
>>> 3. Impressions (again with some quotes from the past from the 
>>> Chapter-Delegates List)
>>> 
>>> During the following months a process of discussion for a 
>>> revision of the bylaws of ISOC international was going on,
>>> reflected also on the Chapter Delegates List. During this
>>> process, a number of other ISOC Chapter representatives were
>>> hoping for a revision which would give a clearer position to
>>> the Chapters ? as ?members? of ISOC with a substantial
>>> representation on the ISOC Board of Trustees - so that members
>>> concerns would have an institutional voice in ISOC decision
>>> making (former voices from the Chapters List: ?...the Board 
>>> does not yet understand that the primary role of many Chapters 
>>> locally and in other contexts is as participants in Civil
>>> Society. From that point of view a 50:50 representation on the
>>> Board of Chapters on the one hand and the industry on the other
>>> hand would be more appropriate - and would I believe be
>>> applauded internationally?). ? ?There is still no overarching
>>> statement... as to the objectives of the ISOC. This would be
>>> useful, particularly if it clearly specified the civil society
>>> dimension of the work of the Internet Society? - that such a
>>> hope was considered to be not important for formalistic reasons
>>> by ISOC central staff shows exactly the reason, why there is
>>> such a wide discrepancy to the expectations of Chapters in
>>> certain societies.
>>> 
>>> The greetings on the ISOC Portal: ?Join - Join today and help 
>>> shape the future of the internet? create assumptions which are
>>> not substantiated in the ISOC structures.
>>> 
>>> The results of the ISOC bylaws revision show again a top down 
>>> structure, where the Chapters of ISOC are not Members of ISOC,
>>> but are under the oversight of ISOC international, and ISOC
>>> international continues to regulate chapter affairs (a possible
>>> area of tension or conflict ?...might be good to point out that
>>> in some countries such a document might as well go against
>>> national laws, in the best case, or be considered as an attempt
>>> to spread foreign influence in the country {which, again in
>>> some cases, might be illegal}?), including the possibility to
>>> suspend a Chapter, while ISOC international does not seem to
>>> have a similar procedure of suspending an Organizational 
>>> Members from industry, in case their position might be in
>>> conflict with fundamental values of the Internet Society.
>>> 
>>> In spite of the ISOC slogan ?The Internet is for everyone?
>>> it's setup does not show this orientation clearly. When a
>>> member enters the Member Login on the ISOC portal here:
>>> 
>>> https://portal.isoc.org/EBusiness/Home.aspx
>>> 
>>> (is it for ?business? that one enters?) one is greeted with
>>> 
>>> ?Make a Contribution? ?Contributions are fully
>>> tax-deductible!? ?Donate?
>>> 
>>> In how many of the countries where there are ISOC members is
>>> this true ? contributions to ISOC are tax-deductible?
>>> 
>>> That there is a wide difference of opinions about the nature
>>> of ISOC became obvious time and again on the Chapter-Delegates
>>> list; I quote just some examples:
>>> 
>>> Some ISOC old time members took ?strong exception to an 
>>> infographic? or said ?my jaw dropped when I saw this?
>>> infographic, originating from the World Economic Forum about
>>> ?The Future of the Internet,? which had been recommended for
>>> distribution and wide use by ISOC leadership. - The problem is
>>> not that there are different opinions; the problem is that it
>>> seems that such fundamental differences of opinion do not have
>>> an appropriate platform for discussion towards a broader or
>>> even common understanding.
>>> 
>>> Who is ISOC when the Chapters are not Members? ?...there are
>>> NOT two parties. There is one: the Internet Society.? - ?But
>>> what we have got.... is an exceedingly one-sided dispute
>>> resolution policy! In this context, who is ISOC? Clearly, the
>>> employed staff have no mandate or authorization to exercise
>>> powers over Chapters. So, who is going to do these things:
>>> 'place ... in a probationary state', etc.?
>>> 
>>> At a former time it was stated on the Chapter-delegates List:
>>> ?So as the paper is today: why should any chapter want to sign
>>> it? Would you sign a contract that only holds obligations but
>>> rather no benefits? Even not if you would be willing to fulfill
>>> the obligations! Or is the benefit in being a chapter as such?
>>> In using the name 'Internet Society' (as the Internet Society
>>> of China does)? Rather not - we are membership organization and
>>> any subgroup of members can probably organize themselves as
>>> e.g. 'Open ISOC Members Circle, Miami West' or so. - So if ISOC
>>> expects a commitment from its chapters it should commit
>>> something in turn.?
>>> 
>>> Conclusion
>>> 
>>> Given this situation of not having a ?listening ear? in ISOC
>>> and responses from ISOC international or regional for our
>>> concerns, we suggest to our members to start the dissolution of
>>> the ISOC Cambodia Chapter ? and to do it in an ordinary way
>>> according to the Bylaws:
>>> 
>>> *    Article XII. - Dissolution of the Chapter 1. Dissolution
>>> of this Chapter by consent of the members shall consist of
>>> unanimous agreement of all its officers together with a 
>>> majority vote at a meeting which has been publicized in advance
>>> to all members of the Chapter for the purpose of taking this
>>> vote. * We would therefore call for such a meeting to discuss
>>> the dissolution of our Chapter, or not to do so in case
>>> practical and timely ways would show up within one months from
>>> sending out this mail. Such a meeting shall be convened as
>>> follows:
>>> 
>>> Location: #8, St. 352, BKK1, Phnom Penh (Open Institute new
>>> office) Date and Time: October 26, 2013 at 2:00PM
>>> 
>>> We regret to see no other way but to suggest these steps.
>>> 
>>> At the same time I would like to state that the use of the 
>>> Internet in our country has bee increasing considerably, and in
>>> all of these, members of our Chapter are involved:
>>> 
>>> There are over 1,100,000 Facebook users, BarCamps -
>>> http://barcamp.org/w/page/405173/TheRulesOfBarCamp - have not
>>> only been held annually since 2008 in the capital city of Phnom
>>> Penh with hundreds of participants every time, but also in six 
>>> provincial centers during the last and the present years, a
>>> self-organized Hackerspace center - 
>>> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki - is in operation since some
>>> years providing a space for hard- and software learning and
>>> exchange, Last year, our Chapter invited the top leadership of
>>> all ISPs and all Mobile Phone Providers in Cambodia, in
>>> response to communications with the Asia Pacific Network
>>> Information Center -http://www.apnic.net - to a meeting with
>>> the APNIC Director on IPv6. Recently, the Director General of
>>> the Ministry of Post informed us that subsequent discussions
>>> with APNIC will lead to establish IPv6 systems in Cambodia in
>>> 2014. Recently, after informal operations for two years with
>>> local enthusiasm and international support towards its
>>> establishment, ?Open Development Cambodia? -
>>> www.opendevelopmentcambodia.net 
>>> <http://www.opendevelopmentcambodia.net> - an online hub
>>> compiling freely available data to help consolidate access to
>>> up-to-date information and maps about land usage, land
>>> concessions and other critically important information related
>>> to the economic and political developments of the country. It
>>> was established as a non-profit organization under the laws of
>>> Cambodia. Both I and our former Chapter president were involved
>>> in these efforts, and we were now invited to be on their Board
>>> of Directors.
>>> 
>>> I mention these examples to indicate that the communication 
>>> society in Cambodia is very active. No coordinating body exists
>>> in the country for questions of human rights and communication
>>> freedom. We regret that our efforts to establish an ISOC
>>> Chapter did not receive the necessary institutional support.
>>> 
>>> Be Chantra Secretary, ISOC Cambodia Chapter 
>>> chantra.be at gmail.com <mailto:chantra.be at gmail.com>
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to
>>> this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society 
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 
> --
> 
> Best, Veni Markovski http://www.veni.com 
> https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski https://twitter.com/veni
> 
> The opinions expressed above are those of the author, not of any
> organizations, associated with or related to him in any given way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society 
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 


- -- 
Grigori Saghyan
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