[Chapter-delegates] Alejandro's question and where does ISOC stand on meaning of Montevideo?

Norbert Klein nhklein at gmx.net
Wed Oct 30 19:54:39 PDT 2013 

+1

Norbert Klein
Cambodia

On 31-Oct-13 07:50, Pornphisud Mongknonvanit wrote:
> +1
>
> Pornphisud Mongkhonvanit
> ISOC Thailand
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 30, 2013, at 9:32 PM, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>>
>> +1
>>
>> A very good description of our plight as chapters.
>>
>> Let us also make sure that the Chapter Advisory Council, if we do get to build it, is a useful tool for two-way communications, and does not become one more indirection layer, one more obstruction.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>>
>>
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Christian de Larrinaga [cdel at firsthand.net]
>> Enviado el: miércoles, 30 de octubre de 2013 02:02
>> Hasta: anupam agrawal
>> CC: ISOC Chapter Delegates; amanoff at vmf.com.ar
>> Asunto: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Alejandro's question and where does ISOC stand  on meaning of Montevideo?
>>
>> You may have misunderstood but I'm not answering for Dave as he is more
>> than capable of doing that directly.
>>
>> As I see this ISOC made a bold assertion in Montevideo as did other
>> Internet related organisations.It is not clear though how this wording
>> was arrived at nor what the implications or intentions are, if any to do
>> about it.
>>
>> Chapters have a shared responsibility for both electing Trustees but
>> also unlike other constituents IETF and organisations a hands on role to
>> promote the ISOC mission. So far we have not been involved in either the
>> formulation of the Montevideo statement nor in any formulation of what
>> happens next. This makes our position locally in representing ISOC on
>> this issue tough. Actually being out of the loop on this makes the
>> chapter appear irrelevant to ISOC.
>>
>> I am not saying the statement was wrong but I am saying that ISOC does
>> need to include its chapters now. This cannot wait for new ISOC board
>> elections. We need to be engaged urgently.
>>
>> In UK we have two events this week. The Internet & Parliament conference
>> and the Open Government Partnership that is bringing a number of
>> "member" governments and assorted civil society experts together to
>> discuss open government.  We can  participate as ISOC chapter but are at
>> this time are almost entirely blind to offer any policy guidance of the
>> background and intentions following this  very hot and important
>> re-framing statement made in Montevideo.
>>
>> That is a worrying gap in ISOC communications.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>> anupam agrawal <mailto:agrawal_anupam at hotmail.com>
>>> 30 October 2013 05:09
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> I am surprised by the authority you suggest that ISOC agrees to a
>>> lightly exercised US legal authority (what's the evidence) and your
>>> confusion is that the Montevideo statement and the other actions seems
>>> to suggest otherwise. This is very serious as you have made Lynn,
>>> Markus, Alejandro, Vint, Theresa party to this. It appears to me that
>>> you know much more than you have divulged in this email and giving
>>> clarion call to others to come out.  What is that are you expecting?
>>>
>>> You referenced being on ITAC (which one?). And how ITAC interest in
>>> Internet governance is justified.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Anupam Agrawal
>>> Chair
>>> Internet Society India Kolkata Chapter
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27-Oct-2013, at 11:51 am, "Dave Burstein" <daveb at dslprime.com
>>> <mailto:daveb at dslprime.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lynn, Markus
>>>>
>>>> I join Alejandro wondering what does it mean that ISOC signed the
>>>> Montevideo statement and what are we really proposing.
>>>>
>>>>    If you read Montevideo and listen to Fadi on how the net can't be
>>>> under the control of any single country, it's a Declaration of
>>>> Independence.
>>>> http://fastnetnews.com/dslprime/42-d/4997-first-look-declarations-of-independence-of-the-net-
>>>>
>>>> In other contexts, ISOC has strongly supported the status quo of
>>>> (lightly exercised) U.S. legal sovereignty , so I doubt Lynn signed
>>>> it in that spirit. Additionally, Danny S. and State seem to read it
>>>> very differently than I do; diplomats and clear language don't mix.
>>>>
>>>>    I can't imagine a more important time for ISOC decisionmakers to
>>>> be transparent both to the board and the membership what the heck is
>>>> really going on. Alejandro, Vint and Theresa are deeply imbedded
>>>> inside this process. I'm actually on the U.S. State Department ITAC
>>>> and it's clear they don't understand what Danny is doing either.
>>>>
>>>>    Please get solid information out both in Buenos Aires and directly
>>>> here to the members.
>>>>
>>>>    ISOC Board members: I hope you join in deeply and share what you
>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>>    Lots in play, so let's use this to show that ISOC itself
>>>> understands and implements multistakeholder and bottom up organization.
>>>>
>>>> Dave Burstein
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     I think that for the rest of this year, at least, there is one
>>>>     overarching issue which is understanding ICANN's strategy with
>>>>     actions like the Brazil meeting; understanding ISOC's HQ stance
>>>>     (this question goes back into the past, to before the Montevideo
>>>>     Statement); to have chapters and members heard about these
>>>>     issues; and last, a no-surprises agreement.
>>>>
>>>>     This no-surprises agreement was first intended to occur mostly
>>>>     among chapters when we started these meetings. Now after
>>>>     Montevideo and the plans for the Brazil Internet Governance
>>>>     Summit we need a clear outline of where ISOC HQ is intending to
>>>>     go, and whatever exchanges that starts.
>>>>
>>>>     I hope you, Markus and Lynn, and whoever is involved, can work
>>>>     out an imaginative scheme that allows the meeting to be very
>>>>     efficient in the initial setup and go straight to the matter. You
>>>>     may need to bottomupize the planning as well.
>>>>
>>>>     Yours,
>>>>
>>>>     Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>> Dave Burstein <mailto:daveb at dslprime.com>
>>> 27 October 2013 06:21
>>> Lynn, Markus
>>>
>>> I join Alejandro wondering what does it mean that ISOC signed the
>>> Montevideo statement and what are we really proposing.
>>>
>>>    If you read Montevideo and listen to Fadi on how the net can't be
>>> under the control of any single country, it's a Declaration of
>>> Independence.
>>> http://fastnetnews.com/dslprime/42-d/4997-first-look-declarations-of-independence-of-the-net-
>>>
>>> In other contexts, ISOC has strongly supported the status quo of
>>> (lightly exercised) U.S. legal sovereignty , so I doubt Lynn signed it
>>> in that spirit. Additionally, Danny S. and State seem to read it very
>>> differently than I do; diplomats and clear language don't mix.
>>>
>>>    I can't imagine a more important time for ISOC decisionmakers to be
>>> transparent both to the board and the membership what the heck is
>>> really going on. Alejandro, Vint and Theresa are deeply imbedded
>>> inside this process. I'm actually on the U.S. State Department ITAC
>>> and it's clear they don't understand what Danny is doing either.
>>>
>>>    Please get solid information out both in Buenos Aires and directly
>>> here to the members.
>>>
>>>    ISOC Board members: I hope you join in deeply and share what you know.
>>>
>>>    Lots in play, so let's use this to show that ISOC itself
>>> understands and implements multistakeholder and bottom up organization.
>>>
>>> Dave Burstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org

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