[Chapter-delegates] Renewal Internet Society Chapter Charter

[Dick Kalkman]

Dear Borka,

Indeed. We can have a phased problem solving approach.

Relating to the AMS:

The technical problems are mainly a management problem. The ISOC
organization is not mature enough to handle effective and efficient ICT
development. That's not easy in a global, but fragmented organization.
It's one of the most classic ICT rules that system development and
management without customer ownership and/or proper communication is
likely to fail. So it did.

The legal problems are extremely complex. However, they are manageable.
Again this is an organizational problem also caused by two things:
1. Dumping incomprehensible legal documents on chapters;
2. Handling personal data without a proper legal foundation.

The first problem is stalled by starting working on a new organizational
structure for ISOC. The Chapter Advisory Council is a first step towards
better mutual understanding and a new start for becoming a more mature
organization.

I can not emphasize enough how important it is that we find a way for
maturing our ISOC organization. The "new" internet related problems
require a combined international approach. Other organizations like
ICANN are now moving forward. It's up to us to set a new direction for ISOC.

The second problem needs at first ownership by senior staff. Every
multinational faces the problem to comply with local laws. Yes, and to
understand local culture. It's in many cases very difficult for
us-centric organizations to handle this.
However a possible solution is on the market. After the hurdles of
recognizing the problem, taking ownership by senior management, getting
support from the customers = chapters, hiring a specialized lawyer, you
can buy international legal compliance support from specialized
companies. Not cheap, but ending up in court is not an alternative.

However I must mention that an other alternative is to distribute the
AMS system (or another system) including the data. Anyway, the need for
moving the data is not so difficult to predict.


Best Regards,

Dick Kalkman






On 22-10-2013 13:41, Borka Jerman Blazic wrote:
> 
> I am confident too that the officers would like to help.
> 
> First fix the technical issues. This must be easy (enable editing in
> AMS, enable automatic renewal,
> enable reminder messages ect., make the AMS user friendly).  Make the
> funding of chapter  events appropriate
> regarding the locations and regarding  the specified  Costs supported
> with relevant evidences (with some reasonable restrictions).
> Make the EU regional Bureau   work with the chapters, the week clippings
> are good but this is not
> what is expected.  Then we may continue to other more difficult issues.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Borka
> 
> p.s. I am not very sure that all these costly HQ surveys among the
> membership provide sufficiently relevant information.
> So far no evidence  of their usefulness!
> 
> Dne 22.10.2013 12:23, piše Veni Markovski:
>> If it was easy, we wouldn't be discussing it for so long, Carlos :)
>> But then, if it was easy, it won't be fun.
>>
>>
>> I am confident that Joyce and Ted, together with Jacek, and others at
>> the HQ would figure out a safe exit (and certainly from the reaction
>> to John More's email I see that chapters are positively looking
>> towards helping the HQ.
>>
>>
>> v.
>>
>>
>> On 10/22/13 06:04, info at isoc.org.ec wrote:
>>> As I see we have a mix of issues from operational ones to sovereignty
>>> in different discussions in the list.
>>>
>>> Very complicated situation
>>>
>>> Carlos Vera
>>>
>>> Internet Society Ecuador
>>> www.isoc.org.ec
>>> Síguenos @isocec
>>>
>>>> El 22/10/2013, a las 3:39, Dick Kalkman <d.h.kalkman at isoc.nl> escribió:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Borka, Klaus and Veni,
>>>>
>>>> In The Netherlands we have much the same problems with the AMS system.
>>>> An estimated near thousand member records are lost and/or corrupted.
>>>> Maybe more, because who knows what happened before we recognized the
>>>> problems? There are simply no activity logs on membership database
>>>> mutations or just basic backups available to us.
>>>>
>>>> We also have the same problem that all our roll back / recovery
>>>> requests
>>>> to ISOC HQ only gave lots of tech talk but until now zero solutions.
>>>> Even our positive response to the proposal from ISOC HQ to switch of
>>>> the
>>>> (for us useless) renewal function didn't result in any action.
>>>> The only (sad) advantage is that the number of complains from our
>>>> members on spamming by ISOC HQ are declining.
>>>>
>>>> The second main problem is that there is still no compliance (read
>>>> compliance certification) to local law(-s). I'm very concerned with
>>>> this
>>>> situation.
>>>>
>>>> I hope that the new task force established to solve this, soon
>>>> result in
>>>> some improvements and we all can go back to our core activities.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Dick Kalkman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 21-10-2013 7:06, borka at e5.ijs.si wrote:
>>>>> Veni and Klaus,
>>>>>
>>>>> I fully agree with all you have said.
>>>>> Instead on mission the HQ is planning how to
>>>>> "discipline" the chapters. I fully agree also
>>>>> what Klaus wrote regarding the funding and the AMS (clumsy, not
>>>>> effective,
>>>>> duplication of the administration etc.) A month ago cca 40 members of
>>>>> ISOC SI were deleted from AMS, because
>>>>> their renewal was not done on time!! When I asked the data to be
>>>>> recovered - the answer was that the data have been lost or somewhere
>>
> 
>